Getting maximum flavour from hops...

Sadfield said:

This is the key issue, loss of flavour and aroma. If it is there in the FV, pre-packaging, then your technique works, and I wouldn't get too wrapped up in changing hop types, using different bags etc.

The problem is in packaging and more importantly oxygen pickup. The first thing to suffer when oxidation occurs is hop aroma.

What is your bottling technique?

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I have a simple beer siphon that you push into the bottle, fill to the top, pull up and the siphon holds the beer ready for the next bottle... I don't have a beer gun or use CO2 so only O2 it gets exposed to is to lift the lid on fermenter to put siphon in and when it pushes O2 out of the bottle...

Interesting on the O2 front. Friend has a grainfather setup and recently been getting the same problem and in reality getting no better results than myself which is basic BIAB.

I limit O2 exposure as much as possible and using my methods I can't see how I can improve that without investment in a beer gun for example...

I still think there is improvement in what I have to begin with before more investment. I believe if you can learn to brew better to begin with using simpler methods then the additions of more expensive equipment will improve rather than cover failings in my understanding and processes

My next step is to let the hops steep for 30 mins after flame out rather than cooling straight away. Hopefully that extracts more out of the last 15 min hop additions

Leon103 said:

They are a decent size and will hold at least 100g of pellets

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The largest ones ?

I've ordered 4 of each of the sizes so I have enough... They are cheap enough and believe this will make a difference

I've tried a few different approaches to getting more hops in the brew. Leaf has only disappointed me, so now I only bother with pellets, and thrown in loose as bagging them seems to get less flavour. A couple of brews I've done a mixture of hop tea and dry hop. I get hot (not boiling) water, and add it to the hop pellets (straight from the freezer) until it reaches 80C. I then leave it to infuse, stirring time to time before adding it, hops and all, into the fv, then adding more hops as a dry hop. This worked very well for my second black IPA and a Coopers lager partial mash hop-bomb. By far the hoppiest beer I've made so far though was a double IPA. I used a method similar to that used by Russian River for brewing Pliny the Elder. They dry hop at a fairly low temperature (15C) for a long time (two weeks), giving plenty of time for infusion. They also do two hop additions. They add the second dry hop after a week, and agitate the previous batch at the same time. This can be recreated at home with a long handled paddle which if used carefully can stir up the bottom while hardly disturbing the surface at all. The low temperature prevents grassy flavours leaching into the beer, and it seems from Stan Hieronymous's Hops book that higher temperature could also cause fishy or vegetal notes. Ultimately though, they best way to get more hop flavour and aroma into your beer is to use more hops :twisted:

hamster said:

I limit O2 exposure as much as possible and using my methods I can't see how I can improve that without investment in a beer gun for example....

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Agree, and fully understand. Could have been an issue there, but isn't. More hops in the FV may be the simplest solution.

As for beer guns. In a constant quest for improvement this is something I've been considering. It's not something that'll be solving a major issue for me, but would give marginal improvement in limiting oxidisation. Whether that improvement is equal to the cost incurred is another matter. The option to either bottle condition or force carb based on style may be a bonus.

I do like having a range bottles available, and don't really have space for a dedicated kegorator.


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hamster said:

The largest ones ?

I've ordered 4 of each of the sizes so I have enough... They are cheap enough and believe this will make a difference

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Yes, I ordered two so I can add plenty of hops :thumb:

dps51 said:

I do all my hops in these in the boil and also dry hopping

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301888412...49&var=600699146407&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

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Thanks for the link :thumb: I've just ordered some of the XXL ones to give them a try.

Leon103 said:

Yes, I ordered two so I can add plenty of hops :thumb:

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Nice ! Quite happy to split hops into multiple units to maximize the fluid to hop exposure...

Given the orders from this post along you should ask for a cut of profits :whistle:

Sadfield said:

The option to either bottle condition or force carb based on style may be a bonus.

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I also have a couple of Corny kegs for forced carbonation however you still run into the same issue when siphoning into the kegs...

Personally though I prefer bottles. Whilst carbing is easier, beer taps on the top give me so much head on the beer and ends up with a flat beer... It is solvable though I believe by adding more pipe or a flow control tap but again that's added expense where I would prefer bottles so I can share in brews

IainM said:

The low temperature prevents grassy flavours leaching into the beer, and it seems from Stan Hieronymous's Hops book that higher temperature could also cause fishy or vegetal notes. Ultimately though, they best way to get more hop flavour and aroma into your beer is to use more hops :twisted:

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I have had a few commercial beers in bars recently, keg mainly, where thy are packed with hops( in the NEIPA style) but also have a distinct vegetal taste, it seems to be one I can readily identify quickly. This may now explain where it is coming from. I do tend to dry hop at low or chilled temperature with gentle agitation as a rule without even knowing this .

hamster said:

I also have a couple of Corny kegs for forced carbonation however you still run into the same issue when siphoning into the kegs...

Personally though I prefer bottles. Whilst carbing is easier, beer taps on the top give me so much head on the beer and ends up with a flat beer... It is solvable though I believe by adding more pipe or a flow control tap but again that's added expense where I would prefer bottles so I can share in brews

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Do you purge the keg and syphon with CO2 before transfer?

Similarly can you not also use the CO2 to purge the bottles?

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Sadfield said:

Do you purge the keg and syphon with CO2 before transfer?

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I do not and now you say it I'm not sure why I have never done so... :-(

Sadfield said:

Similarly can you not also use the CO2 to purge the bottles?

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Don't have any way of getting a low amount of CO2 out without buying for example a beer gun...

Sadfield said:

Do you purge the keg and syphon with CO2 before transfer?

Similarly can you not also use the CO2 to purge the bottles?

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I purge the BB with co2 but not the bottles

hamster said:

Nice ! Quite happy to split hops into multiple units to maximize the fluid to hop exposure...

Given the orders from this post along you should ask for a cut of profits :whistle:

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Someone else on the forum found them first. THey come from China so expect a few weeks wait. I totally forgot I ordered mine.

Leon103 said:

I forgot I ordered two of these and they arrived today, only opened one but looks a decent bit of kit. Will use this during the boil at the weekend.

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I got mine today as well. Looks decent enough to me. Hard to believe its delivered from China for �£2.53.

Leon103 said:

Someone else on the forum found them first. THey come from China so expect a few weeks wait. I totally forgot I ordered mine.

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mine took 4 weeks to come but they are good

Leon103 said:

Someone else on the forum found them first. THey come from China so expect a few weeks wait. I totally forgot I ordered mine.

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Well not brewing for a few weeks yet and haven't decided what to brew either so all good !

Yes, a few months ago. I have kind of the same things but again, the pellets swell so much and the beer is unable to get mixed into the mush. And, the ones I have, even though there stainless, when the pellets swell the still float. I think one of the above post is the best help. Use a bag with line attached and everyday (I know he said 3 times a day) hive the line a few tugs. That would be worlds of difference.