some deliberations on BIAB

My grain has arrived from the Worcester hop shop as recommended by clibit for which i was very grateful. It was beautifully packaged, all hops vacuum sealed in foil, everything looks fine. I have read the previous BIAB thread and I am thankful for the excellent practical advice given. I have some rather specific question because there were scant instructions with my order, only the times of hop additions. All recipes are for 23 litres.

Caledonian style porter

Pale Malt (Maris Otter) (grams) 3310
Wheat Malt (grams) 465
Amber Malt (grams) 210
Crystal Malt (grams) 210
Chocolate Malt (grams) 135

Start of Boil
Fuggle Hops (grams) 22
Goldings Hops (grams) 22

1 x Protafloc last 15 mins of Boil

1 pack of S-04 yeast.

Alcohol content (ABV) 4.1%


Caledonian 80/

Pale Malt (maris Otter) (grams) 3930 Crystal Malt (grams) 215
Wheat Malt (grams) 125
Chocolate Malt (grams) 30

Start of Boil
Fuggle Hops (grams) 24
Golding Hops (grams) 21

Last Ten Minutes of Boil
Golding Hops (grams) 15

1 x Protafloc last 15 mins of Boil

1 pack of S-04

Alcohol content (ABV) 3.8%

Now to my questions.

From what I understand I need to make sure the temperature is a little above the temperature needed to turn the starches into fermentable sugars. From what i can discern, the temperature should be 66 Celsius, meaning that to compensate for the low temperature of the grain i need my water to be about 68-70 Celsius, prior to putting my grains in to mash.

I understand that if I want a more full bodied beer, I could mash at a higher temperature, if i want more fermentable sugars and thus a higher alcohol content I could mash at a lower temperature? I think I should be content with simply trying to keep a constant temperature of 66 Celsious. How long I should mash for i cannot say, 60minutes? 90 minutes?

How much water should i use for my initial mash?

I plan to do a 'fly sparge' as reccomeneded by Brewpirate. What temperature should the water of this 'fly sparge' be? how much water i should utilise?



many thanks for taking the time - regards Robbie

You can use a strike water calculator to find out what your initial mash water temp needs to be

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/calc.html

Have'nt used this one myself so I don't know how accurate it is but will be using it on Friday for my next brew so I will report back

I mash for 60 mins

MyQul said:

You can use a strike water calculator to find out what your initial mash water temp needs to be

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/calc.html

Have'nt used this one myself so I don't know how accurate it is but will be using it on Friday for my next brew so I will report back

I mash for 60 mins

Click to expand...

Hi, its coming in at about 72 Celsius which is fine, how much water should i use per kg of grain to mash remembering that i am planning a 'fly sparge'.

2.5l/kg is a good starting place.

I'm assuming that you're not using biab then, despite the title of the thread?

markm1878 said:

2.5l/kg is a good starting place.

I'm assuming that you're not using biab then, despite the title of the thread?

Click to expand...

Yes i am using BIAB but i am not doing a complete BIAB (that is of course adding all the water one will need initially with no intent to sparge). I plan on removing the grains, draining them and doing a 'fly sparge'. That is pouring water over the grains in the bag to remove sugars and adding it back to the wort. I thought I mentioned that previously.

I use 3 litres to the kg with the same kind of method you are using.

Good man, you've dived in!

clibit said:

I use 3 litres to the kg with the same kind of method you are using.

Good man, you've dived in!

Click to expand...

Yes, I cannot wait to brew these beers. 3 litres per Kg sounds fine. If my grain bill is is roughly 5kg that means of course approximately 15 litres of water. I dont know how many litres of water the grains will absorb or how many i can get to drain out of them prior to sparging but it would be helpful to know as then its a simple task of adding water and boiling it down.

markm1878 said:

2.5l/kg is a good starting place.

I'm assuming that you're not using biab then, despite the title of the thread?

Click to expand...

I too, do a BIAB with a separate 'dunk' sparge

MyQul said:

I too, do a BIAB with a separate 'dunk' sparge

Click to expand...

Yes i think i read this and saw your method of utilising a colander to keep the level of grain above the water, very interesting. It seems to me to be like taking second runnings

The most approximate and easiest method I can find appears to be this. I had to convert from US gallons to litres and simply rounded the figures up or down

Total grain = 5Kg's
Boil time = 1hr
Final volume = 21 litres

Grain absorption = 5 litres
Boil off = 4 litres

Total strike water = 30 litres

Does that sound about right?

One other thing to add, if you didn't ask for a finer crush of the grain, then I would mash for 2 hours. I use a standard crush and have found out after a couple of my own BIAB's and some research that an hour and a half mash isn't really long enough. My next planned brew day is on Saturday and I will be mashing for a min of 2 hours.

I also boil for 90 mins.

It all adds to the brew time and makes it a longish brew day, but the results will/should be worth it. However, do whatever you feel happy with, especially as it is your first BIAB, just enjoy the day and taste. :)

One other thing to add, if you didn't ask for a finer crush of the grain, then I would mash for 2 hours. I use a standard crush and have found out after a couple of my own BIAB's and some research that an hour and a half mash isn't really long enough. My next planned brew day is on Saturday and I will be mashing for a min of 2 hours.

I also boil for 90 mins.

It all adds to the brew time and makes it a longish brew day, but the results will/should be worth it. However, do whatever you feel happy with, especially as it is your first BIAB, just enjoy the day and taste. :)[/QUOTE

Hmmm, that very interesting. I had planned on taking notes. Why such a long mash? is that to get the maximum efficiency from your grains?

IMO a fly sparge on biab is a total waste of time. You're not really doing biab then, you're just using a bag as a filter. Biab is full volume mashing, the idea being that it's quick and that there's less equipment needed and less to clean.

What benefit does it have? Efficiency, maybe? but your grain bill and plan to use 30L shows you only need to achieve 63% to hit your OG. You may have a clearer wort, which won't affect the final beer.

I could be missing something, so apologise if you have a general need to sparge biab.

I mash for an hour and boil for an hour. And mashed 50 mins with my last AG. I get 75% efficiency. In fact that one was 80%, using Pearl base malt, which gives great efficiencies. Remember, you only need to add a bit more malt if you want more extract, it is very cheap, so why wait two hours?

Be aware that 5kg of grain full of liquid is pretty heavy, and hot! Tricky to manouevre etc. If I do a full length AG brew I use my mashtun. Smaller batches I use a bag in a pot.

mirsultankhan said:

Hmmm, that very interesting. I had planned on taking notes. Why such a long mash? is that to get the maximum efficiency from your grains?

Click to expand...

Exactly. My brews should have had a starting gravity of around 1048 or so, but I got 1040, but the FG was lower than I thought, so still got a reasonable strength beer.

All my recipes are based on Graham Wheelers 'Brew Your Own British Real Ale', and he states a 90 min mash for every brew, so after research about BIAB have decided to got for a 2 hour mash and keep to a 90 min boil.

But.....................having said all that, I still got a tasty enough beer, which is the main thing, but I want to try and improve it again, so will try the 2 hour mash. If the research is right, it should make a difference.

Good luck, as I say do what you feel happy with, you can always alter if necessary the next time around.

C.K

markm1878 said:

IMO a fly sparge on biab is a total waste of time. You're not really doing biab then, you're just using a bag as a filter. Biab is full volume mashing, the idea being that it's quick and that there's less equipment needed and less to clean.

What benefit does it have? Efficiency, maybe? but your grain bill and plan to use 30L shows you only need to achieve 63% to hit your OG. You may have a clearer wort, which won't affect the final beer.

I could be missing something, so apologise if you have a general need to sparge biab.

Click to expand...

No worries. why do a BIAB sparge? I dunno, because there is still natural goodness left in the grain that you want to extract? I just read many articles and watched many videos and people were doing it.

I have enterd my recipe into beer recipe calculator, it seems that 30 litres is just about right on. I have reduced my hopes of efficiency to 65% because I thought the initial 75% rather optimistic and my batch size to 20 litres to give a slightly stronger beer.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/201707/caledonian-style-porter

Cornish Knocker said:

Exactly. My brews should have had a starting gravity of around 1048 or so, but I got 1040, but the FG was lower than I thought, so still got a reasonable strength beer.

All my recipes are based on Graham Wheelers 'Brew Your Own British Real Ale', and he states a 90 min mash for every brew, so after research about BIAB have decided to got for a 2 hour mash and keep to a 90 min boil.

But.....................having said all that, I still got a tasty enough beer, which is the main thing, but I want to try and improve it again, so will try the 2 hour mash. If the research is right, it should make a difference.

Good luck, as I say do what you feel happy with, you can always alter if necessary the next time around.

C.K

Click to expand...

Yes apparently my recipe is from that exact book and like you intimate is seems that its a little bit of an art form, getting to know ones equipment and the margins. Lets see what happens and many thanks for the encouragement.

clibit said:

I mash for an hour and boil for an hour. And mashed 50 mins with my last AG. I get 75% efficiency. In fact that one was 80%, using Pearl base malt, which gives great efficiencies. Remember, you only need to add a bit more malt if you want more extract, it is very cheap, so why wait two hours?

Be aware that 5kg of grain full of liquid is pretty heavy, and hot! Tricky to manouevre etc. If I do a full length AG brew I use my mashtun. Smaller batches I use a bag in a pot.

Click to expand...

I actually calculated my grain bill, its only 4.3 Kgs.

mirsultankhan said:

No worries. why do a BIAB sparge? I dunno, because there is still natural goodness left in the grain that you want to extract? I just read many articles and watched many videos and people were doing it.

I have enterd my recipe into beer recipe calculator, it seems that 30 litres is just about right on. I have reduced my hopes of efficiency to 65% because I thought the initial 75% rather optimistic and my batch size to 20 litres to give a slightly stronger beer.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/201707/caledonian-style-porter

Click to expand...

Yes there is, people get hung up on extracting every last bit of sugar from their grains. Truth is, on our scale it makes very little difference. Your recipe calls for an efficiency of 63% based on your starting volume, which is easily achieved without the sparge. In fact, I have got 76% efficiency with straight forward biab and I know others have got in excess of 80%.

You might end up getting a really high efficiency and knocking the balance of bitterness out by hopping the same level to a high gravity wort.

Good luck to you. I'm sure it'll go well, but imo it's a waste of time and effort. It is also likely to make your efficiency less predictable for future brews as it will depend on your sparge speed etc...

markm1878 said:

Yes there is, people get hung up on extracting every last bit of sugar from their grains. Truth is, on our scale it makes very little difference. Your recipe calls for an efficiency of 63% based on your starting volume, which is easily achieved without the sparge. In fact, I have got 76% efficiency with straight forward biab and I know others have got in excess of 80%.

You might end up getting a really high efficiency and knocking the balance of bitterness out by hopping the same level to a high gravity wort.

Good luck to you. I'm sure it'll go well, but imo it's a waste of time and effort. It is also likely to make your efficiency less predictable for future brews as it will depend on your sparge speed etc...

Click to expand...

hmmm, i may up my estimated efficiency i dunno ive never done this before, or up my volume. Here is a rather interesting article on the disparity between doing a full volume BIAB and doing a 'fly sparge'.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/48172-sparging-in-biab-made-efficiency-go-60-79/

the aussie dude claims that his efficiency went from 60% to 79% after doing a sparge.