some deliberations on BIAB

markm1878 · Jan 7, 2015

I've no doubt it will likely increase efficiency. In the example you linked, the sparge water may have increase the temperature of the mash and acted as a mash out (which you can do without a sparge), he may have stirred his grains more on the attempt with the sparge etc... etc.. I doubt you would go from 60-79% if the only variable was the sparge. Efficiency isn't the be all and end all for homebrewers. If you get 75% instead of 65% it's just saved you a few grams of malt which costs peanuts anyway. You don't get a better beer from it. If you were anhauser busch, then yes, 10% would make a difference of millions of pounds. It's far more important to get a consistancy.

If you've read about biab, you probably know that you would normally get above 60% efficiency. In fact, I'd suggest about 70% seems like an average.

As you want to achieve 63%, i'd suggest that as long as you give the grains a good mix in and hit a reasonable temperature (i'd go for 67-68c in that recipe btw), you will get that, or more.

If this is your first biab, why not keep it straight forward? If you do a sparge, this will put a good hour on to your brew day. Not only do you have to do the sparge itself (if you're sparging 15l, about 30 mins is probably about right, you have to then vorlauf, you have to make sure the water's going in at the same rate as it goes out, you have an extra pot to heat and clean and if you do all this and you still end up with a poorer efficiency than predicted, there's more places to point your finger at.

mirsultankhan · Jan 7, 2015

markm1878 said:
I've no doubt it will likely increase efficiency. In the example you linked, the sparge water may have increase the temperature of the mash and acted as a mash out (which you can do without a sparge), he may have stirred his grains more on the attempt with the sparge etc... etc.. I doubt you would go from 60-79% if the only variable was the sparge. Efficiency isn't the be all and end all for homebrewers. If you get 75% instead of 65% it's just saved you a few grams of malt which costs peanuts anyway. You don't get a better beer from it. If you were anhauser busch, then yes, 10% would make a difference of millions of pounds. It's far more important to get a consistancy.

If you've read about biab, you probably know that you would normally get above 60% efficiency. In fact, I'd suggest about 70% seems like an average.

As you want to achieve 63%, i'd suggest that as long as you give the grains a good mix in and hit a reasonable temperature (i'd go for 67-68c in that recipe btw), you will get that, or more.

If this is your first biab, why not keep it straight forward? If you do a sparge, this will put a good hour on to your brew day. Not only do you have to do the sparge itself (if you're sparging 15l, about 30 mins is probably about right, you have to then vorlauf, you have to make sure the water's going in at the same rate as it goes out, you have an extra pot to heat and clean and if you do all this and you still end up with a poorer efficiency than predicted, there's more places to point your finger at.

Its quite interesting. I actually have two coolers, both about 30 litres each. After reading that Aussie article it seems that one of the guys uses a cooler to mash in and simply uses his bag as a filter. He doughs in his grain, takes his first running after an hour or so, pours it into a pot, fills it up again and takes his second runnings after about 30 minutes later, no taps, no spigots, just a bag as a filter. Maybe I will use this method, it seems pretty reasonable and not much different from many of the videos that I have watched, the only difference being the method of filtration.

markm1878 · Jan 7, 2015

Well that's batch sparging. That's another way to do it. I have a 3 vessel system and fly sparge. I have a young son though so rarely get chance to brew.

I want to brew more with shorter brew days so Im going back to a single vessel, full volume biab. I'm quite interested in beers that require step mashing, so in the end will have a recirculating system controlled by a pid. I've not noticed any improvement in my beers by going to a 3v system, infact, my best beer imo was made biab.

It's good fun to experiment ofcourse, but I doubt you'll make a better beer by avoiding the full volume biab. Theres more things to consider, more possible mistakes etc, but if it rocks your boat, go for it.

mirsultankhan · Jan 7, 2015

markm1878 said:
Well that's batch sparging. That's another way to do it. I have a 3 vessel system and fly sparge. I have a young son though so rarely get chance to brew.

I want to brew more with shorter brew days so Im going back to a single vessel, full volume biab. I'm quite interested in beers that require step mashing, so in the end will have a recirculating system controlled by a pid. I've not noticed any improvement in my beers by going to a 3v system, infact, my best beer imo was made biab.

It's good fun to experiment ofcourse, but I doubt you'll make a better beer by avoiding the full volume biab. Theres more things to consider, more possible mistakes etc, but if it rocks your boat, go for it.

Hi Mark, in the end I have settled for a full BIAB, filled up my brew pot with about 26 litres and its mashing as we speak. I could not decide which method to use so I took your advice and went the simplest route! I cannot begin to tell you how good it smells. I am in my loft conversion and the smell has permeated up to there.

I was a little worried because my temperature was 70 but my stainless steel brew pot was holding its temperature too well, i expected it to drop down quickly but it took a little time, i added four litres of slightly cooler water to bring it to the require 28-30 litres and its at a steady 67 Celsius.

the colour is a beautiful deep autumn of browns and reds and golds.

markm1878 · Jan 7, 2015

Good stuff sounds perfect. If you've got a collinder big enough, after the mash, sit the bag in it and let it drain while it comes to a boil. You should get a litre or two of high gravity wort from that.

This hobby is all about experimenting and finding the right way for you. Good to have a simple start though and I believe biab is unfairly regarded as an inferior way of brewing. It's also labelled wrong. The guy who first experimented with it says he wished he'd called it full volume mashing.

How will you be cooling the wort out of interest?

clibit · Jan 7, 2015

If you don't have the space for a full volume mash, then you need to spsrge, or you will leave behind a large proportion of the sugars, in my experience. If you do the same thong consistently you will achieve a fairly stable efficiency. I have. It's just a batch sparge in a second pot. It's the same as using a mash tun and doing a batch sparge, effectively.

MyQul · Jan 7, 2015

clibit said:
If you don't have the space for a full volume mash, then you need to spsrge, or you will leave behind a large proportion of the sugars, in my experience. If you do the same thong consistently you will achieve a fairly stable efficiency. I have. It's just a batch sparge in a second pot. It's the same as using a mash tun and doing a batch sparge, effectively.

I agree with this, especially if you do a maxi-biab like I do. Because of the density of the mash if you don't sparge you get appalling efficiency.

mirsultankhan · Jan 7, 2015

markm1878 said:
Good stuff sounds perfect. If you've got a collinder big enough, after the mash, sit the bag in it and let it drain while it comes to a boil. You should get a litre or two of high gravity wort from that.

This hobby is all about experimenting and finding the right way for you. Good to have a simple start though and I believe biab is unfairly regarded as an inferior way of brewing. It's also labelled wrong. The guy who first experimented with it says he wished he'd called it full volume mashing.

How will you be cooling the wort out of interest?

I will be leaving it in a cube overnight, its 23:26 and i am just adding my hops! I will be finished around 12:30. Next time I am going to use my bag as a filter and mash in my cooler, first 15 litres, then another 10 litres. Original gravity was about dead on the recipe 1.041, well almost a single point out, isn't that amazing?

Ive never seen hops before, they are kind of just like what we call pussy willow buds except they smell amazing.

markm1878 · Jan 7, 2015

Good luck, hope it all goes to plan

mirsultankhan · Jan 8, 2015

markm1878 said:
Good luck, hope it all goes to plan

when i was taking my bag out some of the wort dripped down the side and kind of crystallized onto the cooker, i did not discover it until i took the brewing pot away, its was absolute pain trying to get it off. its like black tar!

I will not make on the cooker again. Either i will make a kettle with electric elements (my father is an electrician so its no problem) or I will buy an induction hob or a gas burner. There was so much moisture in the air that the fire alarms were having a field day, I eventually got the one from the back hall and threw it outside!

MyQul · Jan 8, 2015

mirsultankhan said:
when i was taking my bag out some of the wort dripped down the side and kind of crystallized onto the cooker, i did not discover it until i took the brewing pot away, its was absolute pain trying to get it off. its like black tar!

Cover the cooker top/hob with aluminium foil and cut a hole for the gas ring. Then you can just throw away the foil along with any burnt on wort after.

Congratulations on your first AG btw

markm1878 · Jan 8, 2015

MyQul said:
Cover the cooker top/hob with aluminium foil and cut a hole for the gas ring. Then you can just throw away the foil along with any burnt on wort after.

Congratulations on your first AG btw

Now that's a good idea. I've used my tiny electric hob (which surprisingly keeps a rolling boil) and although i've never had wort spill over, I'm always left with difficult stains on the hob. Having said that, i've just got an element through the post so I'll probably not use the hob again.

markm1878 · Jan 8, 2015

mirsultankhan said:
I will not make on the cooker again. Either i will make a kettle with electric elements (my father is an electrician so its no problem) or I will buy an induction hob or a gas burner. There was so much moisture in the air that the fire alarms were having a field day, I eventually got the one from the back hall and threw it outside!

Sounds annoying. Fortunately my hob has an extractor fan, so I use that or outside on the burners if its a nice day. How big is your kettle?

MyQul · Jan 8, 2015

markm1878 said:
Sounds annoying. Fortunately my hob has an extractor fan, so I use that or outside on the burners if its a nice day. How big is your kettle?

Mine too, but I also open the patio doors and turn my big free standing fan on

MyQul · Jan 8, 2015

markm1878 said:
Now that's a good idea. I've used my tiny electric hob (which surprisingly keeps a rolling boil) and although i've never had wort spill over, I'm always left with difficult stains on the hob. Having said that, i've just got an element through the post so I'll probably not use the hob again.

After my first boil over and having to spend loads of time and money on cleaning products to clean it all off I started doing it.

Works really well. Sometimes you get a bit of wort sneak through the hole you cut for the gas ring but it's only a small bit and I find I can deal with it with some hob brite

clibit · Jan 8, 2015

Baking powder works pretty well. I do the foil thing too, and open the double doors and the windows! Contemplating a gas ring for outdoor brewing, all the same.

mirsultankhan · Jan 8, 2015

markm1878 said:
Sounds annoying. Fortunately my hob has an extractor fan, so I use that or outside on the burners if its a nice day. How big is your kettle?

kettle is 33 litres

mirsultankhan · Jan 8, 2015

clibit said:
Baking powder works pretty well. I do the foil thing too, and open the double doors and the windows! Contemplating a gas ring for outdoor brewing, all the same.

clibit was it you that was saying that an induction hob is more efficient than gas? i remember reading it somewhere and apologise if it was not you. I was thinking of getting one but my only worry would be will it be able to handle a 33 litre kettle filled with thirty litres of water?

markm1878 · Jan 8, 2015

Make sure a magnet sticks to the bottom of your kettle. If not, induction won't work.

mirsultankhan · Jan 8, 2015

markm1878 said:
Make sure a magnet sticks to the bottom of your kettle. If not, induction won't work.

Hi, yes i read this, apparently it has to do with the ferrous content. I have some earth magnets somewhere ill test it out.

I really want to make a kettle but all the elements i see don't say if they come with a gasket and locking nut. I was planning on using two 2000 watt elements, both on to bring to the boil and only one on to keep a rolling boil.

some deliberations on BIAB

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