New England style DIPA (based on Cloudwater v13)

Hey everyone,

So I've been enamoured with NE style IPAs and DIPAs for the past year and have finally dusted off my brew kit to give it a go myself. I'm a massive fan of Cloudwater and their DIPA series, and I decided to piece together a recipe for their DIPA v13 based on information I’ve found from various sources. Looking for some feedback / advice on what I’ve come up with:

Brew method: BIAB
Batch size: 21L
Boil size: 28.5L
OG: 1.088
FG: 1.016
ABV: 9.36%
IBU: 46.91 (but likely to be lower for reasons below)
Colour SRM: 8.76
Boil time: 60 minutes
Efficiency: 75%

Mash temp: 66C for 60 minutes
Mash out: 78C for 10 minutes

Grain Bill
6.27kg Golden Promise (79%)
1.43kg Flaked Oats (18%) (changed from naked oats based on further research)
0.43kg Dextrose (3%) added at 10 mins

Hop Bill
5g Magnum @ 60 minutes
60g Citra @ 0 minutes (hopstand at 80C)
60g Mosaic @ 0 minutes (hopstand at 80C)

263g Citra @ 4 days (dry hop)
263g Citra @ 2 days (dry hop)

Extra additions:
Yeast nutrient at 10 mins

Yeast: Vermont Ale from The Yeast Bay
pitched at 16ºC
allowed to rise to 18.5ºC
allowed to rise to 22ºC once wort was below 1030º for diacetyl rest

A couple of notes / concerns:
• Not too sure about the efficiency for BIAB, but I have read about people claiming they get up to 80% - full disclosure, this will be my first BIAB brew
• Odd quantities on the grain bill are based on info I found from Cloudwater about the percentages they used, so I played around with numbers until I ended up with those percentages for roughly 9% ABV
• Cloudwater did a mixed fermentation using WLP4000 and JW Lees's proprietary yeast. They did say that if looking to do a mixed ferm to use WLP4000 and a yeast that is "fast fermenting with a dry finish, mixed fruit finish (not particularly tropical or peachy)" - but I have no idea what could fit that bill
• Info on dry hopping based on Cloudwater’s statement that they used a whopping 25g per litre on this beer and that both additions happened after fermentation, but I’m curious about adding the first addition before fermentation has finished for the bio transformation that seems popular with the NE style


I’m hoping for some feedback! Thanks in advance :)

Really interested to see how you get on with this. That's a lot of hops!!

Martybhoy1980 said:

Really interested to see how you get on with this. That's a lot of hops!!

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It's not a cheap brew by any means!!

I'm tempted to buy the ingredients and halve the recipe so I can brew it twice, just in case I mess it up the first time

This sounds amazing, that dry hop is insane!

I will be interested to see if the Mosaic hopstand can be tasted after all that Citra dry hop goes in!!

Looks good to me. V13 was rather nice.

Looks good. It's a big beer so smart to dial down your expected efficiency a bit maybe


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Naked oats are a crystal malt so its only recomended up to 10%. Cant advise on using over that as only used it once this weekend. Love the amount of Citra, its my favourite hop so far.

BeerCat said:

Naked oats are a crystal malt so its only recomended up to 10%. Cant advise on using over that as only used it once this weekend. Love the amount of Citra, its my favourite hop so far.

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Or thinking about it - should I be using flaked oats instead? Or use 10% naked and 8% flaked?

Cloudwater's head brewer has said that there's definitely 18% oats in there, and I've just found another source which has brewed this recipe and they used flaked oats so I have a feeling it should be flaked oats.

Thoughts on differences between the two?

Thats a crazy amount of dry hops. Big fan of cloud water too. Id use CO2 extract for the bittering.
Also get your water profile spot on, the mouthfeel plays a huge part in cloud water DIPAS.

http://cloudwaterbrew.co/blog/dipa-v10

https://twitter.com/FullersHenry/status/892656324781232128

Braindead said:

Also get your water profile spot on, the mouthfeel plays a huge part in cloud water DIPAS.

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Yup. I'd even suggest more so than the dry hop amounts.

Another suggestion: If I was trying to replicate a style/commercial beer I'd be reluctant to assume I'll "nail it" first go.

And with a beer that calls for such a large hop bill, I'd be dialling this back a little on my first attempt. Sure, I'd dry hop. But it would be just enough to check out I'd got the hop profile correct, rather than the hop intensity.

It's easy to increase the hops on your second batch if all goes well with your "pilot" batch. I'd rather do this than it not turn out great after all that Citra!

But meh, I'm a chicken!

ProjectBeer said:

Or thinking about it - should I be using flaked oats instead? Or use 10% naked and 8% flaked?

Cloudwater's head brewer has said that there's definitely 18% oats in there, and I've just found another source which has brewed this recipe and they used flaked oats so I have a feeling it should be flaked oats.

Thoughts on differences between the two?

Click to expand...

As far as i am aware flaked oats add body and bare naked oats add body and some sweetness. You can also get torrified oats and malted oats. I know some people also use wheat flakes.

600g of Citra = £45 from MaltMiller... ouch!!!

Bet it tastes amazing though!
DA

Braindead said:

Thats a crazy amount of dry hops. Big fan of cloud water too. Id use CO2 extract for the bittering.
Also get your water profile spot on, the mouthfeel plays a huge part in cloud water DIPAS.

http://cloudwaterbrew.co/blog/dipa-v10

https://twitter.com/FullersHenry/status/892656324781232128

Click to expand...

Can you find CO2 extract in small quantities? I've only been able to see large cans for around £30?

Noted re: water profile and mouthfeel. I actually contacted Fourpure a while back as they're near enough to me in SE London and they were kind enough to give me their water report which included suggested additions to achieve different water profiles for different styles. So fingers crossed adhering to that will yield decent results!

henteaser said:

Yup. I'd even suggest more so than the dry hop amounts.

Another suggestion: If I was trying to replicate a style/commercial beer I'd be reluctant to assume I'll "nail it" first go.

And with a beer that calls for such a large hop bill, I'd be dialling this back a little on my first attempt. Sure, I'd dry hop. But it would be just enough to check out I'd got the hop profile correct, rather than the hop intensity.

It's easy to increase the hops on your second batch if all goes well with your "pilot" batch. I'd rather do this than it not turn out great after all that Citra!

But meh, I'm a chicken!

Click to expand...

I'm thinking of doing just that! Splitting my ingredients in half and doing half a brew first to see how it turns out, then making any necessary adjustments before doing the second.

BeerCat said:

As far as i am aware flaked oats add body and bare naked oats add body and some sweetness. You can also get torrified oats and malted oats. I know some people also use wheat flakes.

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I think I'll change it to flaked oats based on what I've been reading about both this beer and the NE style in general. There's going to be a lot coming from the hops as well as the yeast!

675g from CML. .. £39.

Flaked oats. They're in there to contribute to a full, smooth mouthfeel. At 18% they'll also give a protein haze which is on-style for what you're doing.

The dry hop quantity is somewhat large. To manage that you might want to use pellets and a large (BIAB size) 300 micron weighted down bag. Leaf hops at that quantity might end up looking like this. When you lift the bag out you can give it a good squeeze with gloved hands to make sure you get all the flavoured goodness out of them.

foxbat said:

Flaked oats. They're in there to contribute to a full, smooth mouthfeel. At 18% they'll also give a protein haze which is on-style for what you're doing.

The dry hop quantity is somewhat large. To manage that you might want to use pellets and a large (BIAB size) 300 micron weighted down bag. Leaf hops at that quantity might end up looking like this. When you lift the bag out you can give it a good squeeze with gloved hands to make sure you get all the flavoured goodness out of them.

Click to expand...

I've edited the first post to reflect the use of flaked oats now :)

As for the dry hop - definitely pellets all the way! I've got a few 5 gallon paint strainer bags that I've used before that I'll be using.

Planning on brewing this either next weekend or the weekend after so I'll make a brew day post for it.

Ok, so I've bought all the ingredients (full disclosure....not cheap!) and I'm looking to brew this weekend.

Looking into adjusting my water and having found my water report from Thames Water and tested my tap water's alkalinity with a salifert test kit, I think I'm on the right lines in terms of additions to adjust my water.

I've been playing around with the mash calculator on Brewer's Friend here https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=6XX4XXN

As I'm doing BIAB, I put all of my water volume in the mash water. Would someone more knowledgeable than me be so kind as to take a look and let me know if the additives I've put in look ok?