Greg Hughes recipe IBU question

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MagnusTS

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My next brew will be the American IPA from Greg Hughes - Home Brew Beer

I have a question about IBU.
When I copy the recipe into the Grainfather recipe tools, the bitterness looks totally different. Have a look at the attached Greg Hughes and Grainfather versions.

The main difference is the Grainfather gives the hopstand hops a high IBU value, but the Greg Hughes recipe gives them 0 contribution to bitterness.

Greg Hughes says 55 IBU; GF predicts bitterness of 79.3 IBU.

Which is correct?
Is there a difference between flame out and hopstand?

Thanks.

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Flameout is literally immediately, after turning off the heat, and then cooling.
Hop stand is waiting until cooldown to 80º, then adding hops. Because bitterness still keeps being added between 100º and 80º.

So I have read somewhere, I might be wrong. But it should be the other way around in the examples you gave, so I'll smile, nod and wait until someone adds something beneficent to your question.
 
Not overly useful, but something I have noticed there.

Boil time in the book is 70 minutes, you have it at 60 minutes in your software, a longer boil would get more bitterness from the hops....
 
The 10 min additions are pretty much the same, the first addition is low in your calcs as he boils for 70 mins not 60. Most recipes will assume 0 minute addition then immediate cooling which will prevent isomerisation. I do the same as you have and enter my 0 min as a hopstand due to whirlpool and settling time, also the wort in the GF stays above 90c as the rest is chilled so I figure that the hops will still be giving out some IBUs while I'm transferring through the chiller.
 
I did this beer and I added my final hop addition at 80c whirlpool.
I found the beer a bit sweet and unbalanced so I recommend you add the last hops exactly at flame out before any drop in temperature.
 
Brilliant. Four excellent and helpful replies within an hour. I love this forum.
Thanks everyone.
 
Not overly useful, but something I have noticed there.

Boil time in the book is 70 minutes, you have it at 60 minutes in your software, a longer boil would get more bitterness from the hops....

Yep, sorry, should have mentioned that in the OP; I thought I'd cut the boil time to 60 mins to shave a little time off brew day. You are right, the start of boil hops won't give quite as much bitterness as they would for a 70 min boil.
 
The 10 min additions are pretty much the same, the first addition is low in your calcs as he boils for 70 mins not 60. Most recipes will assume 0 minute addition then immediate cooling which will prevent isomerisation. I do the same as you have and enter my 0 min as a hopstand due to whirlpool and settling time, also the wort in the GF stays above 90c as the rest is chilled so I figure that the hops will still be giving out some IBUs while I'm transferring through the chiller.

You are right, when I enter 0 mins hopstand time in the GF recipe generator it gives 0 IBU.

But as you say, the liquid in the GF is still at 90+ up until the point it gets pumped though the chiller. I think no matter what cooling method you use there is always going to be some bitterness coming from your flame out hops.
 
Yep, sorry, should have mentioned that in the OP; I thought I'd cut the boil time to 60 mins to shave a little time off brew day. You are right, the start of boil hops won't give quite as much bitterness as they would for a 70 min boil.

No worries bud. I us BIABacus when putting my recipes together, so I just tell it how many IBUs I want, put the hops from the original in with the AA% from the original, then put the hops I'm actually using with the AA% for them as substitutes. The spreadsheet then adjusts the quantity according to length of time it's in the boil for and the difference in AA between the hops I have and the hops the author had. It's quite a surprise how much difference there often is, at least it is to me. Just as an example, the Saaz in the Greg Hughes Witbier is 4.2% AA, the Saaz I used was much lower at only 3.5% AA so the beer would have been much less bitter than it's supposed to be if I had used the original amount, that's my understanding anyway. I also, like you, changed the boil from 70 minutes down to 60 minutes due to the large boil off rate I get from my boiler, so I needed a significantly larger quantity of Saaz. :lol:

I might not have twigged to any of this if it wasn't for a few good forums, and access to some good brewing software from the beginning. :thumb:
 
I did this beer and I added my final hop addition at 80c whirlpool.
I found the beer a bit sweet and unbalanced so I recommend you add the last hops exactly at flame out before any drop in temperature.

Thanks, will do. I think after the advice in this thread I am just going to add the hops at flame out at about 99C as you suggest, and then just do my normal whirlpool and 20 min hopstand before pumping through the chiller. I'd much rather err on the side of bitterness rather than end up too sweet.

Would you do this brew again?
 
Thanks, will do. I think after the advice in this thread I am just going to add the hops at flame out at about 99C as you suggest, and then just do my normal whirlpool and 20 min hopstand before pumping through the chiller. I'd much rather err on the side of bitterness rather than end up too sweet.

Would you do this brew again?

I agree, you can always condition a degree of bitterness out but you can't add bitterness after it's brewed.
 
Thanks, will do. I think after the advice in this thread I am just going to add the hops at flame out at about 99C as you suggest, and then just do my normal whirlpool and 20 min hopstand before pumping through the chiller. I'd much rather err on the side of bitterness rather than end up too sweet.

Would you do this brew again?

Yes I would, it took about 2 months to be at it's best, I would probably dry hop a bit next time.
 
I’ve done this brew twice in the BM so he same set up as you. I just followed it to the letter and it came out great first time. Second time now you mention it maybe a bit sweet, as had a bottle last night. I kegged some and didn’t motice the sweetness came with priming sugar?
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I've had a tinker with the recipe. Please could you have a look and see if this looks OK?

I have upped the hop amounts to take account of the fact that mine have slightly lower AA value than in the GH recipe. And also to account for my 60 min boil rather than 70 min in GH recipe.

And then I have split the flame out hops half and half between a 20 min hop stand and dry hopping. I think I have drifted a bit far from the original recipe now though.

Thanks for looking.

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I mostly do greg hughes brews and find they come out more bitter than you'd expect. Probably because I no chill. At flameout I do the last hop addition and let it stand for 20mins or so before draining into the FV still hot. So when I'm doing his IPAs I tend to reduce the 60min additions a bit to compensate.
 
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