Snake venom

https://www.facebook.com/LADbible/videos/3056597991054037/

Has anybody tried this? Would it be possible to home brew? Might be a bit strong even for @dad_of_jon :lol:


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All I can say is "why"?!? I'll stick to my blood pressure tablets which are made from the venom of some Amazonian viper which kills by causing blood pressure to go thru' the floor. I'd guess that 'beer' taken to slight excess would produce the same result.

Razor said:

https://www.facebook.com/LADbible/videos/3056597991054037/

Has anybody tried this? Would it be possible to home brew? Might be a bit strong even for @dad_of_jon [emoji38]


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I've tried Brewdog's Sink The Bismark which I found tasted like how I would imagine IPA cordial to taste.

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Zappa86 said:

I've tried Brewdog's Sink The Bismark which I found tasted like how I would imagine IPA cordial to taste.

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That's hilarious mate. I think you have convinced me to pass on that. :thumb:

I remember reading a devastating blog post about this brewery and this 'beer' in particular, though I can't seem to find it now. Taking the title from their fellow Scots at BrewDog was a publicity stunt, just as BrewDogs consecutive beating of the record through freeze distillation was a publicity stunt. The difference is that BrewDog actually freeze distilled, and got pretty close to the theoretical limit of the technique. What Snake Venom claims exceeds that limit, and it was reported that it the first batches were actually much weaker than what was claimed on the bottle, a fact borne out by spirit hydrometers. The more recent stronger batches, including the one for which the 67.5% was eventually substantiated in lab analysis, raise the question of what they are talking about when they claim that it "contains special ingredients to achieve such a high volume of alcohol". As it transpires, the 'secret ingredient' was, you guessed it, industrial strength alcohol. Would I give them £50 for a bottle? No chance. I'd rather burn a £50 note than give it to them.

I thought it was made by freeze distillation which is illegal to do at home but very easy.

simon12 said:

I thought it was made by freeze distillation which is illegal to do at home but very easy.

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Er ... I don't think that increasing the ABV of a brew by freezing is actually illegal.

It's also a misnomer because it's not a "distillation" process and should actually be called "fractional freezing".

The process of fractional freezing can also improve a brew's flavour. It's worth trying if you have made an absolute pig's ear of a brew that tastes really weak but hasn't in any way gone "off". :thumb:

Dutto said:

Er ... I don't think that increasing the ABV of a brew by freezing is actually illegal.

It's also a misnomer because it's not a "distillation" process and should actually be called "fractional freezing".

The process of fractional freezing can also improve a brew's flavour. It's worth trying if you have made an absolute pig's ear of a brew that tastes really weak but hasn't in any way gone "off". :thumb:

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what can be done for a brew that has gone off ?

simon12 said:

I thought it was made by freeze distillation which is illegal to do at home but very easy.

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It is, which they botched, so they top it up with pure alcohol, and even then don't get the abv right. This sums up the whole thing with Snake Venom and their previous 'beer' Armageddon, which was allegedly 65%.

Personal91 said:

what can be done for a brew that has gone off ?

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If you eat a lot of fish and chips you can bottle it for future use ... :thumb:

... but otherwise I'm afraid it has to go down the drain!


PS

Actually, "down the drain" can be a costly exercise. I read recently that one of the London Councils (Healing?) fined some poor woman £80 for pouring her coffee down a roadside drain!

The woman did it to prevent the litter-bin (where she put the cup) being filled with liquid but the Council official considered it "littering".

Apparently, after a protracted fight and a couple of "You must pay!" responses from the Council, sanity prevailed and she was refunded the money. :thumb:

Dutto said:

Er ... I don't think that increasing the ABV of a brew by freezing is actually illegal.

It's also a misnomer because it's not a "distillation" process and should actually be called "fractional freezing".

The process of fractional freezing can also improve a brew's flavour. It's worth trying if you have made an absolute pig's ear of a brew that tastes really weak but hasn't in any way gone "off". :thumb:

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You are correct but only in the sense of my wording. As you say "fractional freezing" is the technically correct term and its not illegal as long as you get a distiller’s licence, approval for your plant and process and account for and pay Spirits Duty to HMRC, this is required if you "produce spirits in the UK by distilling alcoholic liquids or by any other process" from https://www.gov.uk/guidance/spirits-duty

Why does it not surprise me that the company that produced this beer is Scottish.

simon12 said:

You are correct but only in the sense of my wording. As you say "fractional freezing" is the technically correct term and its not illegal as long as you get a distiller’s licence, approval for your plant and process and account for and pay Spirits Duty to HMRC, this is required if you "produce spirits in the UK by distilling alcoholic liquids or by any other process" from https://www.gov.uk/guidance/spirits-duty

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Ah, this old chestnut. You can go round in circles and never get to the bottom of it by reading legal stuff. The law you cite is right, but "produce spirits" is the key phrase.

The definition of beer includes "any liquor which is made or sold as a description of beer or as a substitute for beer, whose alcoholic strength exceeds 0.5%"

The definition of spirits is "spirits of any description which are of a strength exceeding 1.2 per cent".

If the product of freeze-concentrating fits the definition of beer but not spirit then the law you quoted would not apply. If it fit the definition of spirit but not beer, then then it would apply. However, the definitions aren't very helpful in this respect, not least because the definition of "spirit" is circular. This is where "common sense" applies, considering the historical and common usage of the words 'beer' and 'spirit'; you can't just slap a label with the word 'beer' on a bottle of vodka and flog it for cheap, nor can you describe a barrel aged wine as brandy regardless of how much has evaporation and concentration occured from the barrel during ageing. If it went to court, both sides would make their arguments and a judge would have the final word, just as happened with the whole "is a Jaffa cake a cake or a biscuit?" thing, for which HMRC has a page on their website dedicated to the issue.

As it stands, and as far as I'm aware, the equivalent case for eisbock, applejack or other freeze "distilled" alcohol has not been seen in court. Presumably the market share of eisbocks and one-off BrewDog publicity stunts isn't big enough to make it worth the while of competitors to start legal challenges, and certainly less significant than Jaffa cakes eating into the biscuit market. My understanding is that BrewDog didn't have a distillers license when it made Sink the Bismarck or Tactical Nuclear Penguin, it paid beer duty not spirit duty, no legal challenges were brought against them, and they weren't reprimanded by HMRC. Nor have I heard of any homebrewer that has gotten into trouble for freeze distillation. Until there is legal clarification by a judge, which might be never, this will remain a grey area.

I have tried to find legal definitions for beer and spirits but can't find much. There was a law passed in 1816 banning unmalted grains from beer but I can't even find when that was changed. I think (from a case where a nettle beer contained no grains) that beer must contain malted barley or wheat but I can't even find the relevant law for that. From a commercial point of view HMRC would decide what you must pay tax on it as and trading standards would decide what you can call it but thats all irrelevant to home brewers who are not trading or paying tax. So if anyone made a freeze distilled beer at home and for some reason the authorities where looking to prosecute them I can't find anything that suggests they can't claim it a legally made beer.

Apologies for my previously misleading answers and thanks IanM for pointing out this very grey area.

Forgot to mention the food standards guys may also have rules as to what is allowed to be what but can't find anything there either.

Dutto said:

If you eat a lot of fish and chips you can bottle it for future use ... :thumb:

... but otherwise I'm afraid it has to go down the drain!


PS

Actually, "down the drain" can be a costly exercise. I read recently that one of the London Councils (Healing?) fined some poor woman �£80 for pouring her coffee down a roadside drain!

The woman did it to prevent the litter-bin (where she put the cup) being filled with liquid but the Council official considered it "littering".

Apparently, after a protracted fight and a couple of "You must pay!" responses from the Council, sanity prevailed and she was refunded the money. :thumb:

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What is this world coming to...

IainM said:

I remember reading a devastating blog post about this brewery and this 'beer' in particular, though I can't seem to find it now. Taking the title from their fellow Scots at BrewDog was a publicity stunt, just as BrewDogs consecutive beating of the record through freeze distillation was a publicity stunt. The difference is that BrewDog actually freeze distilled, and got pretty close to the theoretical limit of the technique. What Snake Venom claims exceeds that limit, and it was reported that it the first batches were actually much weaker than what was claimed on the bottle, a fact borne out by spirit hydrometers. The more recent stronger batches, including the one for which the 67.5% was eventually substantiated in lab analysis, raise the question of what they are talking about when they claim that it "contains special ingredients to achieve such a high volume of alcohol". As it transpires, the 'secret ingredient' was, you guessed it, industrial strength alcohol. Would I give them £50 for a bottle? No chance. I'd rather burn a £50 note than give it to them.

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Would I give them £50 for a bottle? No chance. I'd rather burn a £50 note than give it to them.

Don't burn it brew it.....

So....you could make nettle booze....and sell it?

Just think of all the ingredients you could buy for £50 :whistle:

....25 bags of wilko brewing sugar!