Rank tasting beer- Help??

Hi All,

My first post as i really need some advice...

Me and my Dad have been making many kit beers and swapping bottles and tips and all has been successful until recently. We have recently had 3 separate brews that have been undrinkable, namely a Woodfordes Sundew, a Coopers Dark, a Coopers European Lager all have had a similar off taste and have met their demise down the sink!

The beers have all looked ok after racking and through to bottling, the Sundew and the Lager being light in colour have gone darker and cloudy in the bottles.

I can only assume that this is due to poor sterilisation, is this a correct assumption? I would like to ask some advice on correct sterilisation techniques when using beer kits and cleaning plastic bottles?

Secondly, when the beer is in the fermentation vessel and is ready to bottle is there a shelf life prior to bottling, the reason i ask is that one of the "bad brews" was left in the FV for about a week after fermentation had finished and before bottling? Could this have resulted in the beer going off or bacteria gathering?

We have had many successful brews between us so it seems strange that we are both suffering similar problems in the last couple of weeks...

My initial guess would be bad sanitation. The fact that you are getting the same result suggests that. Perhaps you could describe your cleaning regime and tell us what products/techniques you use. Perhaps there is a bug in your home brewery that is surviving cleaning. Perhaps it is in your bottles themselves. Do you sanitise caps? Swing tops on Grolsch style bottles in particular have a soft spot than can escape cleaning.

Also, if possible describe the off flavours. There will be people on the forum who will recognize off flavours.

As for the second point, there is no best before time in the fermentation. Assuming proper sanitation in should be a fine vessel for beer and a nasty one for bacteria. There is a thing called autolysis which is where yeast cells die and impart off flavours in the beer. It is a possibility but not likely if the yeast is less than two weeks old. Even then, it takes time (other brewers might be able to elaborate on this point). To compensate for the possibility, brewers either package immediately or rack off to a secondary vessel leaving the bulk of the material behind.

Hi mate,

A welcome to you and your dad to the forums :thumb:

The thing that springs to mind with it being both you & dad affected is that maybe after a few successful brews, hygiene or indeed cleaning maybe slacking off a wee bit? Sounds like the sanitising part of it is still being take care of but are you doing the necessary cleaning of bottles etc. before the final sanitising? It's a two stage process, thorough cleaning - then sanitising.

Personally, I clean and sanitise the whole kitchen (taps & door handles included!) ban the wife and kids from breathing in there, before I even bring my kit in! Paranoid? Probably, but hey, never had a failure yet.

Sure it's a lot of hard work but as the saying goes, if a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing right! I actually clean & sanitise my gear when I'm finished with it so next time I go to use it, I repeat the process and that means it's been done twice - no bugs gonna live through that :-D

Just for the record, on my gear, I started off with Wilkos sanitiser, moved onto Milton and have finally settled with Star San. I spray my kitchen down with Detox first. Have to say, keeps the wife happy too - kitchen is immaculate when I finish up - heeehehehe :grin:

Hi Guys,

Firstly, thanks for your responses, it seems that my suspicion is proving correct and that sanitation / sterilising could be the issue.

We have been using a couple of methods for sanitising, the favourite has been a strong bleach solution, a secondary method has been a sanitising solution that can be purchased from Makro in an industrial size container and is used in the hospitality industry for cleaning beer pipes. Fermentation vessels, all accessories (mixing spoons, bottling accessories etc) and being submerged for a few minutes then rinsed with tap water. Similar for all bottles and caps, we are both using plastic bottles.

The bleach method is one i pickup up off a home brew forum and is obviously cheaper than the commercial home brew sterilisers, could i be saving some pennies to end up wasting £'s and hours on wasted brews? Are the commercial powder sterilising products far superior?

It is difficult to describe the taste but it is similar and distinctive throughout the 3 bad brews, the beer has gone quite cloudy and has an extremely bitter / mouth screwing up taste...

A further question with regard to temperature / taste if i may? I am personally carrying out the whole process at room temperature whatever that may be as i am limited for space. My Dad is starting fermentation at what has been some quite high temperatures in his conservatory and once fermentation has got going he moves the brew to a cooler area under the stairs for fermentation to complete. Are both of these methods acceptable or is one / neither preferable and if not could these methods have a negative affect on taste?

Many thanks in advance!

star san is just as cheap as bleach in the long run.
i use VWP to clean/sanitize, then just before i use the items i give then a blast with a no rinse sinintizer(star san)

It's also worth bearing in mind that no matter how thorough you are with the sanitising, if your tap water is contaminated - and that happens more often than you might imagine - you'll be putting bugs in after you've sanitised. I lived in a village a while back where at least once a year the entire village got the runs through cross-contamination between the sewage system and water supplies, the culprit being heavy lorries damaging the underground pipes.
Try a brew where you boil all the water though it's a pain if you only have a kettle. And remember to only rinse your bottles with boiled water after sanitising.

An alternative if you don't fancy boiling all 5 gallons of water is to buy spring water - 20ltr of Tescos value spring water (10bottles) will cost you £1.70. You'll still have to rinse off all your equipment and bottles with boiled tapwater though after sanitisation.

Cwrw666 said:

An alternative if you don't fancy boiling all 5 gallons of water is to buy spring water - 20ltr of Tescos value spring water (10bottles) will cost you £1.70. You'll still have to rinse off all your equipment and bottles with boiled tapwater though after sanitisation.

Click to expand...

use a no rinse like star san, then no need to rinse with anything

Hi All,

I would still appreciate your thoughts on the following...

A further question with regard to temperature / taste if i may? I am personally carrying out the whole process at room temperature whatever that may be as i am limited for space. My Dad is starting fermentation at what has been some quite high temperatures in his conservatory and once fermentation has got going he moves the brew to a cooler area under the stairs for fermentation to complete. Are both of these methods acceptable or is one / neither preferable and if not could these methods have a negative affect on taste?

Thanks.

Hi mate,

The one that will affect taste is 'too high' a temperature. The yeast creates off flavours... Too low a temperature might cause the ferment to be slow (or stop) but opinion seems to be it's best for flavour.

The yeast/kits should tell you and ideal temp range to be in for best results. Invest a couple of quid in thermometers as 'room temperature' could be anything. Room temp in my folks house is about 25' (they like it toasty!) whereas my house it's about 20'. Best to know exactly what it's at to put your mind at ease.

Always good to keep out of sunlight. Maybe a conservatory isn't the best place to start the ferment. If you can get hold of a temp strip for your fermenter, you can keep an eye on it. Try not to let it get above 20-22c.

Regarding the cleaning, do yourself a a favour and get some star san. Its no rinse, you dont need to boil it, its reusable and you only need 1.5ml per litre of water. Last you years.

You don't need to be as thorough as mentioned above, I made up kits in my kitchen which is clean anyway and never gave it a special clean first, I too have never had an infection.

If you use the rough side of a sponge when cleaning the fv, you'll scratch the plastic and give nasties a good hiding place. If that's a possibility, just get down to wilko while they've got 25% off and buy a new one.

Thanks for all the advice!

I will be investing in some StarSan...

The guys are probably right about the high temperatures and the conservatory. However, a slightly too hot temperature is not too big a problem at the beginning of fermentation. While there is oxygen present in the wort the yeast will be in the 'growth phase', reproducing asexually. The higher temperature will speed this up. This should take 12-24 hours. However, when the oxygen is used up then the yeast start to make alcohol and other flavour compounds. It is only at this stage that the higher temperature (and overall faster fermentation) can create troublesome off flavours.

Better to avoid having it too warm but keep focused on the idea that the problem is sanitation