Another go at an NEIPA

Last one I made didn't really fit the bill for what I wanted. A hazy, juicy NEIPA style. I've had a few email replies from a couple of established brewers in regard to the fermentables to use. Can anyone who has better knowledge and experience give comment on the grain bill below. Not sure if the %'s will be correct. Dialed it in to Brewers Friend and looks good coming out at a steady 6%abv. I want the oat malt for creaminess, quite dark crystal for sweetness and colour, wheat for head retention and Munich for more colour...

Cheers...


Amount Fermentable Bill %

3.6 kg United Kingdom - Maris Otter pale
67.3%

0.75 kg United Kingdom - Oat Malt 14%

0.35 kg United Kingdom - Crystal 90L 6.5%

0.35 kg United Kingdom - Wheat 6.5%

0.3 kg United Kingdom - Munich 5.6%

5.35 kg Total

Haven't got my recipe in front of me. It I would say more oats?

What did the experts say?

I have a recipe stored, intending to brew later this summer, which is (currently) as follows:

Maris Otter 82.6%
Oat Malt 8.3%
Caramunich I 5%
Carapils 4.1%

Mine is calculated in BeerSmith at 7.1 SRM, yours came out at 10.1 SRM when I ran it. So they are quite different. When I ran yours without the Crystal 90L, the SRM was 5.1. I did wonder if you would be better using a lower colour Crystal malt and more Munich in case the Crystal 90L imparted too strong a caramel/burnt sugar flavour. You might struggle to get to 10 SRM overall that way though if that's where you want to be. Just a few initial thoughts there and has to be said I've not brewed this specific style yet so it's all theoretical.

peteplus1 said:

Last one I made didn't really fit the bill for what I wanted. A hazy, juicy NEIPA style. I've had a few email replies from a couple of established brewers in regard to the fermentables to use. Can anyone who has better knowledge and experience give comment on the grain bill below. Not sure if the %'s will be correct. Dialed it in to Brewers Friend and looks good coming out at a steady 6%abv. I want the oat malt for creaminess, quite dark crystal for sweetness and colour, wheat for head retention and Munich for more colour...

Cheers...


Amount Fermentable Bill %

3.6 kgUnited Kingdom - Maris Otter pale
67.3%

0.75 kgUnited Kingdom - Oat Malt 14%

0.35 kgUnited Kingdom - Crystal 90L6.5%

0.35 kgUnited Kingdom - Wheat 6.5%

0.3 kgUnited Kingdom - Munich 5.6%

5.35 kgTotal

Click to expand...

That grain bill is ok, maybe doesn't need the darker malts, I think some of the Orangey colour is a result of bicarbonates in the water. To be honest though grist is a small part of nailing this style and oats are a bit of a red herring. The full smooth body and fruitiness is a result of water treatment, yeast selection, mash temp and hopping schedule. More info please? On the recipe, and as to why your last attempt didn't meet expectations.

Basically compared to a west coast ipa, mash higher, use a water more suitable for stout/porter, low bitterness and dry-hop during active fermentation, and use a low attenuating fruity yeast - but even all that isn't as straight forward as it sounds.

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Leon103 said:

Haven't got my recipe in front of me. It I would say more oats?

What did the experts say?

Click to expand...

I didn't get anything more from them other than the grain types they used

Ajhutch said:

I have a recipe stored, intending to brew later this summer, which is (currently) as follows:

Maris Otter 82.6%
Oat Malt 8.3%
Caramunich I 5%
Carapils 4.1%

Mine is calculated in BeerSmith at 7.1 SRM, yours came out at 10.1 SRM when I ran it. So they are quite different. When I ran yours without the Crystal 90L, the SRM was 5.1. I did wonder if you would be better using a lower colour Crystal malt and more Munich in case the Crystal 90L imparted too strong a caramel/burnt sugar flavour. You might struggle to get to 10 SRM overall that way though if that's where you want to be. Just a few initial thoughts there and has to be said I've not brewed this specific style yet so it's all theoretical.

Click to expand...

I already have the grains in the bill. Just trying to get the percentages something like. Maybe less of the crystal 90 perhaps.

Sadfield said:

That grain bill is ok, to be honest though its a small part of nailing this style and oats are a bit of a red herring. The full smooth body and fruitiness is a result of water treatment, yeast selection, mash temp and hopping schedule. More info please.

Basically compared to a west coast ipa, mash higher, use a water more suitable for stout/porter, low bitterness and dry-hop during active fermentation, and use a low attenuating fruity yeast - but even all that isn't as straight forward as it sounds.

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Click to expand...

I've had such beers lately and recipes I've found do seem to call for the oats ?!

I'm not putting a big bitterness charge on at the beginning. Mostly hopping at the very tail end and after 'flameout'. Then yes dry hopping in 2 stages when fermentation is ongoing but slowing a bit and then another dry hop after completion.

Yeast is a Yeast Bay Vermont

Yep, oats are common and I used them myself, the red herring is that they are not the primary route to getting the right mouth feel, although I'm sure they contribute along with suspended yeast and high levels of hop oils.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/11/21/th...w-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/#more-74930

Peteplus1, Water treatment? And, where was this beer lacking? Wrong body, flavour, etc?







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Sadfield said:

Basically compared to a west coast ipa, mash higher, use a water more suitable for stout/porter, low bitterness and dry-hop during active fermentation, and use a low attenuating fruity yeast - but even all that isn't as straight forward as it sounds.

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Click to expand...

I was glad to read this comment. I'd been doing some research into the water treatments required and I thought it seemed quite like a stout profile. Clearly I'm getting better at reading these things!



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Hi, Ajhutch, I think it's like a Stout in terms of flavour profile but different in requirements for mash properties. I think NEIPAs are quite unique in that there is so much interplay between different elements as opposed to most other styles, where things are quite linear, start with right water, mash with correct grist, use correct hopping, add the appropriate yeast. It requires a perfect storm of hop/yeast bio-transformation, impeded yeast flocculation, suppression of bitterness by sodium and rounding out the mouthfeel with chloride.

I'm still working on it.

Interesting that you should post this, as I've started working on a new NEIPA recipe and the input here is really helpful!

Found this tucked away in the bookmarks on my computer.

http://scottjanish.com/chasing-mouthfeel-softness/

Sadfield said:

Found this tucked away in the bookmarks on my computer.



http://scottjanish.com/chasing-mouthfeel-softness/

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That's interesting, I actually read it not two days ago! I think I've got a planned profile dialled in but found the discussion about when to add the calcium chloride very interesting.


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http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/1433572/neipa

I had the above in a beer swap, really enjoyable, and I think, the first time I've had mosaic.
Also have had both versions of a "a day down margate" from @dan125.

Seems lots of us want one of these in the beer rotation...