Yeast questions

pop the yeast book i linked to earlier on your chrimbo list.. you wont regret it
yeast nutrient isnt needed in a malt based beer as the complex malt solution contains everything, if brewing a sugar wash for any reason or some wines from processed juice a nutrient can help.

yeast harvested from a brews sediment can be kept for weeks in a bottle under beer in the fridge, the longer its kept the less viable it becomes

if using a liquid yeast its easier to build a bigger starter and save 1/2 for the next brew in the back of the fridge.. but unless your going the whole hog and making agar slants and plates to isolate pure colonies for propogation genetic variations will ocour with stored yeasts that may have an impact after 3 or 4 generations

Fil said:

pop the yeast book i linked to earlier on your chrimbo list.. you wont regret it
yeast nutrient isnt needed in a malt based beer as the complex malt solution contains everything, if brewing a sugar wash for any reason or some wines from processed juice a nutrient can help.

yeast harvested from a brews sediment can be kept for weeks in a bottle under beer in the fridge, the longer its kept the less viable it becomes

if using a liquid yeast its easier to build a bigger starter and save 1/2 for the next brew in the back of the fridge.. but unless your going the whole hog and making agar slants and plates to isolate pure colonies for propogation genetic variations will ocour with stored yeasts that may have an impact after 3 or 4 generations

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I ordered the yeast book last week so hopefully I'll get it this week :pray: and It'll be my commute read for a week or two.

I've spent the morning researching dry yeast and which ones to use for which style as up until now I've been using Wilko Ale yeast (Nottingham) for everything and am finding it a bit dry for some of the beers I make. Also did a bit of reseach into washing yeast from slurry as £7+ (inc P&P) for a vial of liquid yeast is way too much for me to afford on just one brew. So I want to learn how to harvest - which I hope to do in the new year

Fil said:

if using a liquid yeast its easier to build a bigger starter and save 1/2 for the next brew in the back of the fridge.. but unless your going the whole hog and making agar slants and plates to isolate pure colonies for propogation genetic variations will ocour with stored yeasts that may have an impact after 3 or 4 generations

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This is what I do, washing is good and all but thats extra work. I make an extra big starter then save half for future use. I do not have to worry about possible contamination and if you pick the right strains you can get many generations saving tons of money.

If you are all grain after the mash we add some hot water to extract any sugars that are left and collect jar up. Typically its 1.010 -1.025 and boiling it down you can condense it down to 1.030+ in no time saving even more.

MyQul said:

I ordered the yeast book last week so hopefully I'll get it this week :pray: and It'll be my commute read for a week or two.

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watch out you dont get too engrossed and ignore your stop it should also carry a warning that if read by a brewer an 'investment' in a mini yest lab is a very high probability..

brewpirate said:

This is what I do, washing is good and all but thats extra work. I make an extra big starter then save half for future use. I do not have to worry about possible contamination and if you pick the right strains you can get many generations saving tons of money.

If you are all grain after the mash we add some hot water to extract any sugars that are left and collect jar up. Typically its 1.010 -1.025 and boiling it down you can condense it down to 1.030+ in no time saving even more.

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On the you tube I've watched they make up some DME to do the starter. I usually have some sparge runnings left after doing my BIAB dunk sparge, could I use this? Not sure if I have 2L left though. Could I just add some more hot water to extract some more sugar to the left over grains add it to the sparge runnings and boil down

MyQul said:

On the you tube I've watched they make up some DME to do the starter. I usually have some sparge runnings left after doing my BIAB dunk sparge, could I use this? Not sure if I have 2L left though. Could I just add some more hot water to extract some more sugar to the left over grains add it to the sparge runnings and boil down

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DME yeast starters are the easiest, I have a 3lb bag thats lasted me for up to 10 starters or so. I would sparge my BIAB brews by putting a colander at the bottom of the bucket inverted, set the bag of grains on top and pour 2-3 kettles of hot water over the grains and let it drain. I used to top off my kettle but this would work for get some free starter wort.

You decant most of the spent beer off with a starter so dont need to be overly concerned with tannins and what not.

brewpirate said:

DME yeast starters are the easiest, I have a 3lb bag thats lasted me for up to 10 starters or so. I would sparge my BIAB brews by putting a colander at the bottom of the bucket inverted, set the bag of grains on top and pour 2-3 kettles of hot water over the grains and let it drain. I used to top off my kettle but this would work for get some free starter wort.

You decant most of the spent beer off with a starter so dont need to be overly concerned with tannins and what not.

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Fantastic! - Thanks BP

Another question: Following the above instruction + my extra sparge runnings might give me too much wort. How might I store the extra? Can I freeze it?

MyQul said:

Fantastic! - Thanks BP

Another question: Following the above instruction + my extra sparge runnings might give me too much wort. How might I store the extra? Can I freeze it?

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Freeze it, can it, fridge it just boil the **** out of it when you goto use it. Always taste or smell. If its off toss it out.

I thought trub was all dead residue but I've read a few suggestions about re-using yeast from on brew to the next, apparently we can just scoop up some sediment from the bottom of th fv, is that correct?
If so, does it work with any kit brew?
How much sludge do we salvage, and how much of it should we use in the next brew?
Does it need to be treated in any way before use?
Or have I misunderstood completely?

The trub at the bottow of the FV is made up of dead yeast cells, proteins, live yeast, hop particles.

You can harvest the yeast at the bottom of a FV to re-use from brew to brew but it's recommended you do what's known as 'washing' the yeast to get rid of dead cells, protiens, beer etc to leave behind just the yeast (there are several you tube vids on how to do this). It's not recommended to store it for any period of time in the fridge (may be a couple of weeks) and it's recommended to do whats known as a 'starter' from the washed yeast, basically you grow more yeast from the washed yeast in weak beer (just re hydrated DME really) then pitch it into your kit/wort (again there are you tube vids on this)

Harvesting yeast is a great way to save money. If you ever decide to get into using liquid yeast it cost nearly £7 a pop so if you use your yeast from brew to brew you really only have to buy the yeast once - although some people say only go up to a maximum of ten generations whereas others say you can do it indefinatley.

You can also harvest yeast from commercial bottle conditioned beer saving you the £7, which is what I intend to start doing in the new year (again there are you tube vids on doing this)

Received the yeast book a couple of days ago. Had a quick perusal,looks good, but now I've got a few days off work will start to read it properly

Thanks MyQul, I'll get youtubing.
Being a tightwad I've put an 'add to stock' request for the yeast book to the library; maybe they'll oblige, maybe not but worth a try.
I have to say, from looking at the preview pages on Amazon, it does indeed look surprisingly readable for such a technical publication although maybe more info than I need.
Ideal would be a really good brewing book that covers everything, including yeast, in just enough detail, but there are very few of those on any subject...

The yeast book so far is fantastic and even the technical bits are really accesable to the layman but as you say it's definately more info than you need if you only want to learn how to harvest and propagate yeast, you can learn this from forums, youtube etc. It's really for home brewers with a interest in the little beasties

However, one advantage I've learned from owning brewing brewing books (I seem to have a growing little homebrew library now ) over simply trawling the 'tinterweb is that sometimes you don't even realize that you need to know something so you don't know to search for it. Whereas with a homebrew book you'll be reading and you'll come across new and relavant information that makes you think - "Wow, I didn't even know/realize that"

BruinTuns said:

Ideal would be a really good brewing book that covers everything, including yeast, in just enough detail, but there are very few of those on any subject...

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Au contraire, mon ami - http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html

Probably, everything you ever need to know on all aspects of brewing

MyQul said:

Au contraire, mon ami - http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html

Probably, everything you ever need to know on all aspects of brewing

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Remember while reading, the online book is the first edition and there have been quite a few revisions between then and the latest revision so using the online version alone could give you some outdated info.

I'll be buying the paper version very soon though, the online version is very thorough so looking forward to getting my hands on it.

MyQul said:

The yeast book so far is fantastic and even the technical bits are really accesable to the layman but as you say it's definately more info than you need if you only want to learn how to harvest and propagate yeast, you can learn this from forums, youtube etc. It's really for home brewers with a interest in the little beasties

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considering a mini yeast lab yet ?? hehe

Gawd don't temp me . Dunno what the missus would say if I started sticking petri dishes in the fridge :-D. The yeast book is amazing. I've learned so much and I'm only half way through. I was absolutely astounded to learn that the shape of your fermenter can affect the taste of your beer :shock:

Hope the other books in the brewing elements series are as good as this as I'd like to add them to my little home brew library

I'm becoming sold on this yeast book..
MyQul, I took your John Palmer advice on board (it appears to be free online :thumb:).
Do you have any other recommendations that you consider indispensable from your library?

When I say I have small HBing library, I do mean small - three books to be exact

I have:

Graham Wheeler's Brew your own British real ale. Which I would say is a good book for new extract and AG brewers as it goes through the basic process of both (although not BIAB) as well as going through ingredients, equipments and cleaning and disinfecting. However you can find everything in that section on the 'tinterweb. I got it because of the recipe section. It has over 100 receipes mostly clones of British milds and bitters with a handful of stouts and porters

Brewing Porters and Stouts by Terry Foster. This is a new book (available only in november). If your into porters and stouts this is the book for you. It starts with an extremely well researched history of P&S. The rest of the book is very well organised, it goes on to describe the different styles of P&S with guidlines for ABV% and IBUs. The next section is ingredients in P&S, suggested grains, which is quite a detailed section (it also describe the process of how certain grains are roasted) as only right as P&S are malt forward beers. Smaller sections on suggested hops, yeast, flavourings, water chemistry and finings. The final sections is recipes, 60, broken down into different styles. The book has a definate American feel to it despite the author being born and educated in the UK

And I have of course the yeast book. I can't recommend this highly enough. It's essentially in two parts. The first part is about the effects (flavour, alcohol etc) of yeast and what affects it (temperature, oxygen, floccuation, attenuation etc). The second part is yeast wrangling, how to harvest, handle and store yeast. Even if you use the same dry strain for the rest of your brewing career and never use any of part two. Part one, I think, is worth the money alone, to give you a thorough understanding of what the little beasties are up to in your FV.

The yeast book is part of a series called Brewing Elements Series. Hops, grains, water and yeast. I plan on buying both the hops and the grains books too. The hops book has good reviews on amazon, the grains book is very new (released December I think) so hasn't got any reviews yet

Brewing classic styles is awesome as well John Palmers How to Brew are always in my backpack. The Brewers Association's Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery has also been a good read, one day...

Had a quick look at the link for brewing classic styles. That'll be going on my HB library list