But the cider is awful

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Aqualung

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I have been making lots of wine this summer and autumn and most of it is really nice. But my cider is really awful. By that I mean it is like drinking watered down apple juice. It has no body to it at all.

When I made that juice it was really appley and sweet. But it has lost all of its flavour.

The first batch went down the drain. The second batch was not much better, but it tastes ever so slightly cidery. The third batch had some grape concentrate added but is neither cidery or winey.

I have planted six apple trees over the last couple of years (mostly eaters) and they are producing the goods.

Is there any way of rescuing what I have?
 
Unfortunately good eaters don't make great cider although they may make great sweet juice.

Any sweetness will ferment to dry (good for alcohol content) but for body you need acid provided by sharp apples and also tannin usually provided by cider apples.

If you can't get your hands on cider apples a 70/30 ratio of eaters to cookers is better. Alternatively add some malic acid and tannin (or some very strong tea from a few teabags).

I'm sure you know this but you're never going to make a magners or strongbow without the hassle of pasteurisng and adding sugar or sweetening with an artificial sweetener that doesn't ferment.

If the cider is a bit sharp or acidic it will usually get better in the spring when it goes through the fabled malo lactic fermentation which takes the edge off it and mellows it out.
 
When I did TC I used artificial sweetener to back sweeten it and it worked well but for adding body I don't know what to suggest. If worst comes to absolute worst and to save chucking it, blend it with some nice bought cider to make it drinkable.
 
I always add a cup of strong black tea (4 tea bags stewed for 30 mins) and a tablespoon of lime juice. That's for my usual 4l batches. Then I get the wife to taste test when I bottle it and backsweeten with sweetex according to her feedback. Seems to do the trick and it's pretty good after a couple of months sat in the cellar.
 
I made cider with dessert apples and it was pleasant but unimpressive so I converted it to apple wine by refermenting it with sugar and 500 g of minced sultanas, which turned out much better. I kept some cider back to see if it would improve with time. It didn't and actually lost both colour and flavour. I tried a mix of dessert apples and bramleys. The flavour was much better but the acidity was too high for dry cider.
 
I made cider with dessert apples and it was pleasant but unimpressive so I converted it to apple wine by refermenting it with sugar and 500 g of minced sultanas, which turned out much better. I kept some cider back to see if it would improve with time. It didn't and actually lost both colour and flavour. I tried a mix of dessert apples and bramleys. The flavour was much better but the acidity was too high for dry cider.

That is very much what I have, very unimpressive, I might try re fermenting it.
Thanks
 
It's a bit difficult to comment when you haven't posted up your recipe....
 
interesting thread. My apple cider tastes like what I imagine a weak apple based champagne would be - but very appley..... It isn't particularly high on body but I have never fancied adding tannin. I think I like that it isn't the same as the commercial ciders - where economics surely dictate they water down the juice and then add sugar to get more bang for the buck from the most labour intensive stage - pressing.

My apples are very acidic - Indeed I add precipitated chalk to reduce this. Worth getting a PH meter and analysing the juice before fermentation. Good instructions on the love brewing website.
 
It's worth noting that the legal definition of cider is that it is made with a minimum of 35% apple juice. That would certainly take care of the acidity issue. My recent brew was cyser (apple mead). In the end it was 25% bramley and 25% my own 'dessert' apple juice + honey and water and even that required acid reduction to make it palatable. I was hoping that a malolactic fermentation might take place and halve the acidity, but honey contains a natural preservative (hydrogen peroxide) and unhelpfully the lactobacilli don't like high acidity.
 
First time I made cider from windfall apples it was so acidic I could have spent 10 years or so in prison had I chucked it in someones face. I drank it though - by stirring in a couple of spoonfulls of sugar plus one of bicarb into every glass...
Fact is, real cider doesn't taste like anything you'll ever buy in a bottle labelled `cider' down the supermarket.
 
It's worth noting that the legal definition of cider is that it is made with a minimum of 35% apple juice. That would certainly take care of the acidity issue. My recent brew was cyser (apple mead). In the end it was 25% bramley and 25% my own 'dessert' apple juice + honey and water and even that required acid reduction to make it palatable. I was hoping that a malolactic fermentation might take place and halve the acidity, but honey contains a natural preservative (hydrogen peroxide) and unhelpfully the lactobacilli don't like high acidity.

helpful post. So I assume supermarket cider is basically 65% water and a bunch of sugar to make up the alcohol. That explains why my homemade (up to 25% water, no added sugar) is so much better...
 
Possibly. The manufacturers of alcoholic drinks are not required to state quantities of fruit used, unlike foodstuffs such as juice. They are entitled to protect their recipes as intellectual rights.
 
helpful post. So I assume supermarket cider is basically 65% water and a bunch of sugar to make up the alcohol. That explains why my homemade (up to 25% water, no added sugar) is so much better...

That's why I make make the best cider (pause)

jeremy-clarkson-gave-up-booze-to-stay-sharp-while-negotiating-his-amazon-prime-deal.jpg


In The World.

'Cause it's 100% :lol:
 
Am I being compared to Clarkson ? I can live with that....

Joking aside, this thread has inspired me to read around the issue of what it is in the cider we buy at the supermarket. Unsurprisingly, many of the major brands are less than 50% apple juice, a bunch of cheap sugar such as corn syrup, and other odds and ends.

Homemade cider with no added sugar is much more like a weak apple wine. it's night and day different. Better.

I'm now on a mission to find out what craft ciders, that are actually something to do with apple juice, I can buy commercially that are somewhere as good as the home made. That can easily be done for about £8 per litre (Cambridge Cider company is a good one near me), but I'm hopeful some bargains will be found. if there's interest I can start a thread.

of course, if I can ramp up my own production over the next few years this wont be needed.
 
It's his style of speaking I was referring to, more here: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMuO-8S_0Wg[/ame]

The only time I buy commercial cider is to compare against mine, we went to a food and drink festival in Summer and all the craft ciders were watered down too.
 
Ive just made my first batches of cider using crab apples. I dont know what type of apples they are but as im new to the house i picked the first batch when i thought they were ready and made cider from a bucketful. At tasting it was vile. The remaining apples became the most glorious red so i picked them and had another go, having tasted the previous batch i added a couple of apple juice cartons. At tasting that was bland so i put the two batches together and rebottled. It actually tastes ok now.

I had a point. oh yes why not plant a crab apple tree to your orchard? Will give you the sharpness you need.
 
I think crab apples are better if used as a small component of total apples in cider making......

The other benefit of crab apple trees is that they are supposed to be very versatile in the fertilisation of other varieties....
 
You could make a cider with more body to it and blend the two, according to your taste. I know! That begs a question... Cider making from whole fruit is traditionally a seasonal thing, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. I've made batches of cider from shop bought fruit that turned out pretty good and it's a good time of year to give it a go. Aim for an OG. of 1040° or so, and to finish fermentation around the 1010° mark, rack off the lees and cold stabilise outdoors, then rack again. Stabilise with MBS and Kmeta if you feel the need. At a SG. of 1006° the residual sugars will give your cider the body you desire. Cheers.
 
Thanks for the info everyone. For those who wanted to know. The recipe-
1 gallon of juice and let them ferment with natural yeast.
The alcohol is there, not too strong, but it is like drinking weak apple juice.

I tried two more batches but this time I added general purpose yeast to one and some grape powder to the other. They are clearing at the moment.

I sampled both this weekend. The one without grape powder is stronger but quite bland. I took a shot glass of this and added a drop of lemon juice which made it much more palatable. so I have added the juice of a lemon and an orange while it clears.

The one with grape powder tastes like a rough apple wine. I will give it six months after it clears and see what I get.

It has been an interesting read and thanks for the ideas.
 
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