water report

danb · Mar 1, 2014

I have never done anything other than add campden before a brew but the next will be a pilsner and I'm aware my water will be no good.
I've been on Severn Trent and Ithink tthere's enough info to cover the water treatment calculator and on lager its coming up with around 40ml of crs.

Would anyone mind having a quick look to see if this is OK. Thanks
Full report in PDF format at the bottom.
http://www.stwater.co.uk/households/you ... de=ng183sp

pittsy · Mar 1, 2014

For a lager you'll be better off with some bottled water . You also need to treat your water for any brews , the water report isn't complete (i'm also seven trent ) but you would have astringent beer with those readings as is . Too many bicarbonates for a lager .

danb · Mar 1, 2014

What other info do I need pittsy? Can I use part r/o water with tap water? Cheers

pittsy · Mar 2, 2014

asda smart water will do you .R/o water would need correcting with all sorts like calcium sulphate and so on . My advice is have a good few reads thru https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge. It will be confusing at first , and probably after too lol .
Most of us in this land will have water that has too much bicarbonate for brewing pilsner beer , the calcium most likely will be too high ( for darker beers you may need more calcium )

Aleman · Mar 2, 2014

What Murphys don't tell you about using CRS is that you can't really brew a successful pilsner style beer using it if your water contains a high level of alkalinity. The amount of sulphate that it throws into the water is ridiculous, and it will if using the hopping rates for a Bohemian Pilsner will result in quite a harsh bitterness.

You could use RO in a 2 or 3L of RO to 1 of tap, or you can buy Tescos Ashbeck or Asda Smartprice bottled water and add 1 tsp of calcium chloride to the mash liquor (for 5 gallons) . . .you don't want a lot of sulphate in there so avoid anything that adds sulphate.

If going for a German Pilsner then you might get away with it as the hopping rate is 1/2 that for Boh Pils

danb · Mar 2, 2014

Tbh I'm not sure what I'm aiming for, I was after something along the lines of Stella as that's the only lager I've had apart from light types such as corona. I am going all lager malt and saaz for hopping.

Atm I can't afford to have my water tested but will do at some point in the future. I'm going to ring seven Trent and see what I can find out. The forum calculator values as far as I can see is only calcium and magnesium missing.

Now I think of it I have only done 2 lights ales, summer lightning when Isstarted and a recent smash golden ale and they both have the same faint twang, which I presume is water related.

danb · Mar 2, 2014

Aleman said:
What Murphys don't tell you about using CRS is that you can't really brew a successful pilsner style beer using it if your water contains a high level of alkalinity. The amount of sulphate that it throws into the water is ridiculous, and it will if using the hopping rates for a Bohemian Pilsner will result in quite a harsh bitterness.

You could use RO in a 2 or 3L of RO to 1 of tap, or you can buy Tescos Ashbeck or Asda Smartprice bottled water and add 1 tsp of calcium chloride to the mash liquor (for 5 gallons) . . .you don't want a lot of sulphate in there so avoid anything that adds sulphate.

If going for a German Pilsner then you might get away with it as the hopping rate is 1/2 that for Boh Pils

That's what I was thinking, say I need 40l of water total. Use 30l r/o and 10l tap water.

danb · Mar 2, 2014

For the German pils aleman do you mean get away with my water? Or the mix of r/o? Thanks

Aleman · Mar 2, 2014

danb said:
For the German pils aleman do you mean get away with my water? Or the mix of r/o? Thanks

Get away with using CRS to reduce your alkalinity . . . Munich brewers have high sulphate so use half the hopping rate of Bohemian brewers.

So something like Lowenbrau Export at 1.054 will bitter to around 20-25IBU but Bernard Celebration Pilsner at 1.052 is bittered to around 45-50IBU

Can't recall the data off hand for Stella, but I think it's a pretty low bittering around 20-25 for a gravity of 1.044

danb · Mar 2, 2014

Did you have a look over the figures from seven Trent? I got
Sodium 19mg/l
Sulphate 47mg/l
Chloride 92mg/l

CaCo3 233mg/l but that's hardness not alkalinity. Is it the same thing.

Aleman · Mar 2, 2014

danb said:
Did you have a look over the figures from seven Trent? I got
Sodium 19mg/l
Sulphate 47mg/l
Chloride 92mg/l

Those are fine

CaCo3 233mg/l but that's hardness not alkalinity. Is it the same thing.

Unfortunately it's not the same as alkalinity, and for brewing purposes is pretty meaningless . . .However given the sulphate and chloride values we can be sure that you alkalinity is fairly high. if you go with my suggestion of diluting it with RO and adding a tsp of calcium chloride to the mash you should have no issues brewing any sort of lager

danb · Mar 2, 2014

Cheers aleman will do. I'll also try and get the rest of the figures including alkalinity.
I'll aim for 25ibu and any idea on the later additions? Thanks

danb · Mar 2, 2014

Also from reading, are they not the same if both are represented as calcium carbonate (CaCo3)? Is the figure of 233 mg/l CaCo3 not correct to be entered in the calculator? Thanks

Aleman · Mar 2, 2014

danb said:
Also from reading, are they not the same if both are represented as calcium carbonate (CaCo3)? Is the figure of 233 mg/l CaCo3 not correct to be entered in the calculator? Thanks

Hardness is the level of Calcium and Magnesium in the water expressed as if it were all present as Calcium carbonate (CaCO3)

Alkalinity is the level of carbonate (Bicarbonate and carbonate) in the water expressed as if it were all derived from calcium carbonate.

The water companies express it this way to cause maximum confusion for brewers :twisted: :twisted:

basically if you read anything on the web that gives a value for hardness put your fingers in your ears adn say very loudly "LA LA LA LA LA AL . . . . ." over and over until you forget about it.

Hardness is actually good for brewing as calcium is needed in a lot of reactions, alkalinity is bad for brewing especially pale beers.

danb · Mar 2, 2014

I'll give them a ring tomorrow then and see if Ican get aalkalinity, magnesium and calcium readings.

ryanshelton · Mar 2, 2014

So the salifert test kits test the alkalinity right?

fisherman · Mar 2, 2014

Salifert alkalinity test kit from e-bay. I e-mail the seller first to check the use by dates as you have over 100 tests per kit for about Â£7. I test my brewing water before and after dosing down to 20 ppm. Put your alkalinity reading into Graham's water calculator and march on mashing. I use lager malt and carpels or caramalt very good results.Alkalinity is number one for me .Minerals unless used in silly proportions seem to fine tune your beers.Happy Brewing :thumb:

danb · Mar 2, 2014

I'm going to buy one and then I can test it every brewday.

ryanshelton · Mar 2, 2014

Where do you get your CRS from?

danb · Mar 2, 2014

Can get AMS if you use Murphy's.

water report

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