Hop Burst APA - Centennial & Amarillo - too much?

Ceejay · Jan 21, 2013

Putting a recipe together for a brewday Friday. I like my APA with bags of hop flavour and aroma, citrussy and bitter but with enough interesting malt to make it more 3 dimensional. Here goes:

23L
OG: 1050
FG: 1010 to 1013
Eff: 69%
IBU: 42
Colour: 7.5 SRM

4.2 kg Maris Otter
340g Biscuit Malt
340g Munich Malt
227g Wheat Malt

WLP090 San Diego Super Yeast

Now, the hop schedule is what I'm having trouble with. I've hop burst 2 beers so far and really liked the flavour and aroma it produces, but not sure whether I really "need" 200g of hops to achieve what I'm trying to achieve. This is what I have at the moment:

15g Amarillo, 20 mins
15g Centennial, 20 mins
15g Amarillo, 15 mins
15g Centennial, 15 mins
20g Amarillo, 10 mins
20g Centennial, 10 mins
25g Amarillo, 5 mins
25g Centennial, 5 mins
25g Amarillo, FO
25g Centennial, FO

So, that's 200g in a 23L batch. In terms of getting flavour and aroma, could I get away with say half what I have?

Mark1964 · Jan 21, 2013

looks fine add more hops cascade maybe :thumb:

Ceejay · Jan 21, 2013

Lol! I have Cascade Hop Aroma Oil that I might add when I batch prime. Works really well in lieu of dry-hopping.

Mark1964 · Jan 21, 2013

Fermentable Colour lb: oz Grams Ratio
Pale Malt 5 EBC 9 lbs. 1.0 oz 4110 grams 91.7%
Munich Malt 20 EBC 0 lbs. 8.8 oz 250 grams 5.6%
Crystal Malt 130 EBC 0 lbs. 4.2 oz 120 grams 2.7%

Hop Variety Type Alpha Time lb: oz grams Ratio
apollo Whole 17.5 % 90 mins 0 lbs. 0.2 oz 7 grams 16.3%
Cascade Whole 5.7 % 0 mins 0 lbs. 0.4 oz 12 grams 27.9%
Chinook Whole 11.5 % 50 mins 0 lbs. 0.2 oz 5 grams 11.6%
Columbus (Tomahawk) Whole 15 % 10 mins 0 lbs. 0.2 oz 5 grams 11.6%
Perle Whole 8.25 % 0 mins 0 lbs. 0.2 oz 5 grams 11.6%
magnum Whole 14 % 70 mins 0 lbs. 0.1 oz 4 grams 9.3%
simcoe Whole 13 % 60 mins 0 lbs. 0.2 oz 5 grams 11.6%

Final Volume: 19 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.053
Final Gravity: 1.012
Alcohol Content: 5.3% ABV
Total Liquor: 28.3 Litres
Mash Liquor: 15.7 Litres
Mash Efficiency: 85 %
Bitterness: 39 EBU
Colour: 16 EBC

Try this one

Ceejay · Jan 21, 2013

Nice! That's a complex hop profile right there, like a citrus fruit salad! It seems pretty similar to mine, albeit mine is more along the biscuits/crackers etc. I say "mine" - actually, the malt bill is straight out of "Brewing Classic Styles" : cheers:

That was kind of my question though - how do you find the hop character of that recipe? I notice it's "only" 43g in total. Starting to think 200g is way too much...

I do like a tonne of hop flavour & aroma though... :mrgreen:

By the looks of it, this is called an XPA, or Extra Pale Ale in the US.

Awolphotography · Jan 21, 2013

Go with your original, have done plenty of brews with at least that amount. Looks bloody lovely!

Ceejay · Jan 21, 2013

Cheers! That's my mind made up. :thumb:

I might kick up the OG slightly though, so it doesn't finish too dry. Brewmate has the FG at 1010 based on 81% attenuation. WLP090 can go to 83% and over according to the website.

Mark1964 · Jan 21, 2013

who said you need heaps of hops to give flavour. That recipe is carefully thought out and tastes excellent hop taste then a nice malty finish

Awolphotography · Jan 21, 2013

Mark1964 said:
who said you need heaps of hops to give flavour. That recipe is carefully thought out and tastes excellent hop taste then a nice malty finish

I'm sure it's lovely, but he never asked for a recipe, and more than likely doesn't have all of those ingredients available.

Ceejay · Jan 21, 2013

You're both right. : cheers:

I do like the look of that recipe; it definitely looks nicely balanced, with a well constructed malt bill. I really want to try this one out though, and definitely want to get huge hop flavour/aroma. The original question was more around is this WAY too much, i.e could I get away with just 100g of hops, if I reduce the late additions and add a small 60 minute. I'm going to go for it and see what happens :thumb:

Mark1964 · Jan 21, 2013

fair enough just thought it would be worth a bash at some point

Ceejay · Jan 21, 2013

You're right there mate, I've never used more than 3 different hops in a brew, so I'd be well up for brewing that in the future :thumb:

Good Ed · Jan 21, 2013

Rule No 1; if in doubt add more hops.

I did an APA with 170g of Amarillo at 15, 5 and 1 mins to get 49IBU's, bloody lovely

You should read Mitch Steele's book IPA, the recipes he gives for historical IPA's the hops are up to 30g/L. There's a recipe for Meantime London IPA that I put in to Brewmate that came out to over 500g of Goldings & Fuggles for a 23L brew.

Ceejay · Jan 21, 2013

Oh, that book is definitely on my "want list", along with "For the love of hops" by Stan Heironymous.

One question - how long in the package before you reckon your hop monsters are at their peak and how long before their all "done in"?

I have a West Coast Red IPA, Centennial/Cascade hop bursted 75 IBU, 6.5% that is really good 2 weeks after I bottled it and wondered if that is unusual and how long I should expect it to retain it's awesome hop flavours and aromas.

I seem to use Centennial alot! :lol:

Good Ed · Jan 21, 2013

That's right get tucked in early, I bottle mine and start drinking them after a week or so after they are fully primed, I find the hop flavour starts diminishing after about 6 weeks, still very drinkable of course : cheers:

I start drinking ordinary pale ales straight away as well

Ceejay · Jan 21, 2013

Good to hear, cheers! I tend not to allow my beers to last too long either : cheers:

:drink:

jonnymorris · Jan 27, 2013

Ceejay said:
15g Amarillo, 20 mins
15g Centennial, 20 mins
15g Amarillo, 15 mins etc...

Wot no bittering hops, i.e. at start of boil? How does that work?

RobWalker · Jan 27, 2013

it's calculated to come out with a relatively high IBU from just those additions jonnymorris. lower utilization = more overall hop flavour! :thumb:

wilsoa1111 · Jan 27, 2013

tbh i reckons that looks fairly restrained hopwise- v economical- doubt even if the bigger brewerys can improve on that if they want it really hoppy. i always end up using around 60g hops on a malty brew. so i reckon u do need 3-4x to really take of the note of the hops

Hop Burst APA - Centennial & Amarillo - too much?

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