I despair

I was listening to the radio late last night and some guy visited the computing department of a technical college in North London. He asked the pupils why the college and area was famous. NOT ONE KNEW. Well apparently it was where TIM BERNERS-LEE studied...the inventor of the inter webb. None of then had heard of him!!
Naturally they all waxed lyrical about student stuff like cultural diversity
i tell you...we are doomed...I don't know what they teach kids these days

Media studies? Half a million kids 'learning' utter cack cos it's the easy option, whilst the country is screaming for engineers, scientists etc etc. Fat chance - that takes hard work and application. Ah well, if all else fails they always want burger-flippers.

Robin54 said:

I was listening to the radio late last night and some guy visited the computing department of a technical college in North London. He asked the pupils why the college and area was famous. NOT ONE KNEW. Well apparently it was where TIM BERNERS-LEE studied...the inventor of the inter webb. None of then had heard of him!!
Naturally they all waxed lyrical about student stuff like cultural diversity
i tell you...we are doomed...I don't know what they teach kids these days

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I thought it was that Puerto Rican called Alta Vista and that Yank, Graham Google who invented the internet? Not sure now?

Wait! I can look it up on the internet, Wiki must know surely!

Gunge said:

whilst the country is screaming for engineers.

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If only. Seems to me (a civil engineer) that infrastructure is low priority right now.

Especially oop north.

braziliain said:

If only. Seems to me (a civil engineer) that infrastructure is low priority right now.

Especially oop north.

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Our engineering shop cannot get staff for love nor any amount of money -- cos no-one is qualified. But there's loads of people qualified in studying the media so not to worry.

The country has always been 'screaming for engineers' for a long time. Getting an engineering degree is hard work. I know. I've done it.
Also the engineering institutions do little to promote engineering as a respected profession (compared to say the BMA which does a good job for doctors) and that results in the misconception by Joe Public that 'engineers' can be anyone who mends washing machines or services your car, to someone who designs a bridge. In my book people who mend washing machines or service cars are technicians (formerly mechanics), whereas people who design bridges are definitely engineers. In other parts of the world the difference is recognised. But not in the UK.
So what with hard work to get a degree and a professional qualification, and being undervalued professionally (and that does mean less money) to name but two things, young up-and-comings tend to look elsewhere for a profession or career.

me and the missus work in student accommodation, one day the fire alarm went off. A bright young girl had put a whole chicken still in pack in the microwave and followed the oven cooking guidelines, so she'd put this chicken in the micro for about 2 hours still wraped in plastic...England's future

Then there was the clever young lad who ragged a flat screen TV of the wall, "it just fell off" he said....yeah right, it had taken half the plaster board with it too and you could see his thumb prints on the piano black bezel around the screen. !! If all the beer and vodka bottles didnt give the nights shenanigans away then the hash pipe out on the table and the fact the whole flat stunk of weed....It was only his first night

One lad got back from a night on the **** needing a poo, too desperate to wait until he got back to his room he curled it out in the lift, thing is all the doors have fob access and the lifts have CCTV so we knew exactly what room he was in and what he looked like.

Not just the students too, it was late December and the security guard doing night shift got a little too festive and downed a bottle of whiskey, stripped out of his uniform and put on a santa outfit and crashed the students xmas party and carried on drinking while 4.30am until he eventually fell asleep on the floor. Needles to say he was dismissed the next day.

I suspect someone has said the very same things about your generation. :smile: can't wait until it's my turn

Yes, I am glad to hear someone is keeping up the old traditions - Imagine if everyone went to uni just to study and act all straight-laced! My College actually had it's own bar. They wouldn't accept getting stoned and throwing paper aeroplanes off the roof as an engineering project, though... :whistle:

Gunge said:

Media studies? Half a million kids 'learning' utter cack cos it's the easy option, whilst the country is screaming for engineers, scientists etc etc. Fat chance - that takes hard work and application. Ah well, if all else fails they always want burger-flippers.

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Actually, the ability to understand the perspective of various media sources and critically argue with them is extremely important. In a time like this when we have main stream media bowing down to political figures and repeating what they say with no investigation at all and web based 'independent' media with dubious sources of information. The public become immune to 'the news' and 'politics' because they can't trust it and feel separate from it and that allows big business and government to control all dialogue with no body to effectively question them. This is naturally detrimental to the people because obviously government and big business have their own objectives which rarely coincide with the general populations.

Look at the 350m for the NHS, this was spouted by the leave campaign and never investigated for truth by the media and indeed the right wing press just repeated this as a truth so people believed it. Now it turns out to be a complete lie but that could have persuaded peoples vote.

The study of media is critical in having a population capable of questioning our leaders both political and in business. It not surprising that it's often the right wing press barons who mock courses such as Media Studies when it's the graduates from those courses who have the knowledge and skills to question them.

Gunge said:

Our engineering shop cannot get staff for love nor any amount of money -- cos no-one is qualified. But there's loads of people qualified in studying the media so not to worry.

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Media studies ?
Does that mean you are qualified to appear on Big Brother and other wanabee famous for 15 minutes reality shows?

Nowadays it's all about the spectacle and not about the substance or what you actually know!

TheQuokka said:

throwing paper aeroplanes off the roof as an engineering project, though... :whistle:

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AO size drawing sheets are good for that especially if the building is already up on a hill :whistle:

grmski said:

Actually, the ability to understand the perspective of various media sources and critically argue with them is extremely important.

The study of media is critical in having a population capable of questioning our leaders both political and in business. It not surprising that it's often the right wing press barons who mock courses such as Media Studies when it's the graduates from those courses who have the knowledge and skills to question them.

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I don't doubt that it is important to be able to analyse views put out by the varous branches of the media. And we do need people who can produce the wherewithall for the entertainment industry.

But it doesn't take an army of media studies graduates to do this. However it does take an army of engineering graduates to design, build and operate complex and some not so complex things we come across in our everyday life. The list is endless. In the 21st century we cannot function without them. But we can, if pushed, do without media studies

The basic problem is that media studies is perceived by as a sexy subject by potential students, perhaps even an easy option, whereas engineering in comparison isn't.

terrym said:

I don't doubt that it is important to be able to analyse views put out by the varous branches of the media. And we do need people who can produce the wherewithall for the entertainment industry.

But it doesn't take an army of media studies graduates to do this. However it does take an army of engineering graduates to design, build and operate complex and some not so complex things we come across in our everyday life. The list is endless. In the 21st century we cannot function without them. But we can, if pushed, do without media studies

The basic problem is that media studies is perceived by as a sexy subject by potential students, perhaps even an easy option, whereas engineering in comparison isn't.

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I'd make the point that of course any society needs engineers if it wants to be economically successful I saw figures that say the sector creates around 1/4 of all uk GDP and is growing at about 1% annually. While the creative industries are growing at ~10% annually but contribute much less to gdp something around 1%. So we have one massive sector that grows a bit and a small but noticeable one that is growing really well. Why would we want to damage either? Surely it is in our own, the nations and young peoples interests that we help all people whatever their skillset to achieve their maximum and the trope of lazy media students really works against that.

grmski said:

I'd make the point that of course any society needs engineers if it wants to be economically successful I saw figures that say the sector creates around 1/4 of all uk GDP and is growing at about 1% annually. While the creative industries are growing at ~10% annually but contribute much less to gdp something around 1%. So we have one massive sector that grows a bit and a small but noticeable one that is growing really well. Why would we want to damage either? Surely it is in our own, the nations and young peoples interests that we help all people whatever their skillset to achieve their maximum and the trope of lazy media students really works against that.

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I agree we don't want to damage either. But as a society in the UK we need to make engineering a more attractive option compared to some of the softer options available. That's a major shift and probably won't happen in my lifetime, if at all. :-?

terrym said:

I agree we don't want to damage either. But as a society in the UK we need to make engineering a more attractive option compared to some of the softer options available. That's a major shift and probably won't happen in my lifetime, if at all. :-?

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I agree there are many great careers in large and smaller engineering and tech companies. One of the biggest problems is that since the government cut funding for careers advice in schools it's very hard for young people to find out about. Teachers are specialists in teaching a subject but can't be expected to know about all other industries and about career advice.
It was a short sighted measure by the Tory/LibDem government that is continuing to damage uptake in the engineering sector.

We need a system similar to a points based immigration system, where subsidies for further education are graded to how much the skills are required in the workforce.
Say if we have a accute shortage of social workers then give them free education whereas if there are a large number of media study students not finding work in the media due to lack of jobs, then make that education non subsidy based.

This I believe would also have some effect on immigration as we have far too many people coming into the country, a percentage of which are filling the skills shortage.

We have an higher education system that the individual pays for via a loan and which is now barely funded by government. So why would these institutions which are being made to act like businesses be open to state interference in their recruitment? Surely it's down to a person to make the rational choice about which course suits them and their aspirations after all they're the ones picking up the tab for it when they get a job.
IF the government funded higher education fully then I could see that the provision of certain courses could be controlled for national strategic interests but it somewhat sounds like a Stalinist 5 year plan.

Immigration is another tricky subject but in general with an ageing population and a growing economy someone has to do the jobs to create the wealth to pay for everything.

terrym said:

The country has always been 'screaming for engineers' for a long time. Getting an engineering degree is hard work. I know. I've done it.
Also the engineering institutions do little to promote engineering as a respected profession (compared to say the BMA which does a good job for doctors) and that results in the misconception by Joe Public that 'engineers' can be anyone who mends washing machines or services your car, to someone who designs a bridge. In my book people who mend washing machines or service cars are technicians (formerly mechanics), whereas people who design bridges are definitely engineers. In other parts of the world the difference is recognised. But not in the UK.
So what with hard work to get a degree and a professional qualification, and being undervalued professionally (and that does mean less money) to name but two things, young up-and-comings tend to look elsewhere for a profession or career.

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I agree with this 100% and if I had my time again, I would not be designing bridges. Endless studying, massive responsibility, high stress design and build contracts, low pay, and no protected status once professionally qualified.

The most successful of my university peers went into investment banking, brand consultancy, internet based systems design and law. Some of them after studying Philosophy, Ecology, Politics and Archaeology.

braziliain said:

The most successful of my university peers went into investment banking, brand consultancy, internet based systems design and law. Some of them after studying Philosophy, Ecology, Politics and Archaeology.

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......but not Media studies?