Pressure barrel question

thehorse · Oct 18, 2015

Sorry, another question arising from bottling this morning. I've read that for a PB to work correctly, the cap is meant to be screwed tight to allow the CO2 to create the pressure.

However, as I was bottling from the PB, secondary fermentation hadn't occurred, so the only way to get beer out of the tap and into the bottle wand was to loosen the cap.

Have I now risked ruining my beer by letting the air in? I can't see any other way of getting the beer out before secondary fermentation has started.

NB As I've bottled 2/3 of the beer, I don't know whether the beer remaining in the PB will produce enough CO2. Should I add more, just in case?

Racinsnake · Oct 18, 2015

Can't see why you would have ruined anything, the cap needs to be on tight for priming. So if I were you I'd just prime what you have left in the PB and put your cap back on and put bottles and barrel in the warm for 10 days or so.

thehorse · Oct 19, 2015

Cheers. There were also air bubbles while I tried to figure what was 'wrong' with the tap.

Racinsnake · Oct 19, 2015

Not sure what you mean by air bubbles
You'll get some gouging in barrel as you release pressure and fill your bottles, as long as you primed and put the cap on it will carb up in the warm.

FatCol · Oct 19, 2015

thehorse said:
Sorry, another question arising from bottling this morning. I've read that for a PB to work correctly, the cap is meant to be screwed tight to allow the CO2 to create the pressure.

However, as I was bottling from the PB, secondary fermentation hadn't occurred, so the only way to get beer out of the tap and into the bottle wand was to loosen the cap.

Have I now risked ruining my beer by letting the air in? I can't see any other way of getting the beer out before secondary fermentation has started.

NB As I've bottled 2/3 of the beer, I don't know whether the beer remaining in the PB will produce enough CO2. Should I add more, just in case?

I've posted many, many times on here regarding the problems of over tightening the lid on a PB. They only need to be finger tight, and providing you have Vaselined the washer and threads, it will seal perfectly. If you over tighten it, all that happens is the flat washer in the cap distorts and fails to seal, thus leading to a lack of pressure.

Hope that helps.

thehorse · Oct 19, 2015

This was more a case of it not pouring at all unless it was loosened.

As for the air bubbles, they were behind the tap while I was trying to bottle with the cap on too tight.

What about the CO2? The barrel is only 1/4 full as I've bottled the rest. Will that produce enough CO2, or should I inject some?

Racinsnake · Oct 19, 2015

Bang on Col!! :thumb: no Vaseline on the side between seal and barrel tho?
Should be fine Horse as long as you added priming sugar, if your stressing give it a little squirt of CO2, it will vent through the PRV if there's an excess.

FatCol · Oct 20, 2015

thehorse said:
This was more a case of it not pouring at all unless it was loosened.

As for the air bubbles, they were behind the tap while I was trying to bottle with the cap on too tight.

What about the CO2? The barrel is only 1/4 full as I've bottled the rest. Will that produce enough CO2, or should I inject some?

The reason it wouldn't pour is because there was no pressure to push the beer out - when you loosen the lid, it will flow because it is no longer a "sealed" system. The reason you had bubbles behind the tap whilst the cap was tightened, is because the pressure inside the barrel will try to equalise and will draw air through the tap as the beer flows out. Think about how a bottle glugs if you pour it quickly.

Tony1951 · Oct 20, 2015

FatCol said:
I've posted many, many times on here regarding the problems of over tightening the lid on a PB. They only need to be finger tight, and providing you have Vaselined the washer and threads, it will seal perfectly. If you over tighten it, all that happens is the flat washer in the cap distorts and fails to seal, thus leading to a lack of pressure.

Just want to support the comment above. Also though, be sparing with the Vaseline. More than a vague smear and the washer may squiggle out of its groove as you screw on the cap, and fail to seal. I've had a fair bit of trouble with this. The washers don't last that long either. Buy some spares. I saw some online for pennies. Other suppliers were charging over three quid.

thehorse · Oct 21, 2015

So, just to get this right, will the air formed by the bubbles through the tap or my loosening the lid affect the beer? And will there be enough pressure/CO2 from a barrel that is only 1/4 full. And, three days in, would it hurt to test by opening the tap?

Cwrw666 · Oct 21, 2015

What have you got to lose? - re-prime the barrel, give it a few days and start drinking it. It will either taste fine (as I expect) or it will taste like beer in a pub that's at the end of the barrel, in which case only drink it if it's not too bad.

Tony1951 · Oct 21, 2015

thehorse said:
So, just to get this right, will the air formed by the bubbles through the tap or my loosening the lid affect the beer? And will there be enough pressure/CO2 from a barrel that is only 1/4 full. And, three days in, would it hurt to test by opening the tap?

I doubt you will have aproblem after just a bit of air wet back through the tap, but it is something to try and avoid as a regular thing. I used to think the beer would go bad really easily if any air got near the finished beer. It doesn't. I've just finished a barrel that ran out of gas about eight days ago with about 9 pints left in it. I had a fair bit of ale maturing so I didn't bother to treat it right and put a co2 cap on. I just poured a pint with my dinner each night by loosening the lid and opening the tap. It came out flat mind, but teh beer was fine right to the last dreg. I'm sure yours will be too.

If the barrel is only quarter full, re-prime with a sugar solution containing about 20 grammes of table sugar dissolved in half a cup of boiling water. Keep that covered while it cools a bit, then tip it in and put the cap on. Take it indoors where it is about 20c and after a few days - four or so, take it back out to your cool storage and serve as you want. It may be slightly cloudy for a few days after re-priming, but it will be fine is my expectation.

thehorse · Oct 22, 2015

It was primed initially (I'd bottled 24 pints and left 12 in the barrel). So I guess I'm wondering: will such a small amount I the barrel create the requisite CO2 with so much headspace?

Tony1951 · Oct 23, 2015

Probably it will do. Just open the tap and see if it comes out with some force. If it does, all is well. Since co2 is heavier than air, the air in the barrel is sitting on top of a layer of co2. Your beer should be fine. If there is not enough pressure, or if it runs out before the end of the beer, do what I suggested in the post above. Beer is a lot more durable than you might think. If it wasn't, people wouldn't have been enjoying beer so much for thousands of years. :) I have often re-packaged the end of a barrel (say the last gallon) by bottling the dog end of a barrel, or putting it into a mini keg. It is amazing how it freshens up. When I've bottled the last gallon or so, I just mixed it with table sugar at 5gms / litre and after a fortnight in the bottles it was brilliant. Likewise when re-packaged in a mini-keg (only they can't take 5gm /litre as they balloon up with the pressure). Beer that has not been contaminated by filth is surprisingly tough stuff.

thehorse · Oct 23, 2015

Brilliant. Thanl you for grasping my question and answering it. I've been wavering about to gas or not to gas all week, and was unsure about opening the tap.

Racinsnake · Oct 23, 2015

Ditto to both Tonys posts, especially the last one :wink:

thehorse · Oct 23, 2015

More good news. I tried the tap and it is producing the necessary CO2. Furthermore, some of that home brew maltiness is mellowing out. Reckon it'll be alright for a first effort

Racinsnake · Oct 24, 2015

Aaaaaand..... RELAX :drink:

Leon103 · Oct 26, 2015

I think the slight leak in mine as caused it to turn out flat. I am going to test in 2 days to be sure, if not I will change the tap.

Pressure barrel question

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