How to make Belgian Candi Syrup

Dave1970 said:

Thanks for the guide, just made a small batch for a Brewferm Grand Cru kit. Made it using Silver Spoon sugar because that was what we had...I'm assuming that having been cracked its beet rather than cane origins won't matter any more? Very easy & surpisingly quick (about 50 mins) using lemon juice as the acid. Would never have considered it without your guide...thanks again

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Good man. As Aleman says, cane sugar, beet sugar - it's all sucrose and there is no difference at all.

luckyeddie said:

Dave1970 said:

Thanks for the guide, just made a small batch for a Brewferm Grand Cru kit. Made it using Silver Spoon sugar because that was what we had...I'm assuming that having been cracked its beet rather than cane origins won't matter any more? Very easy & surpisingly quick (about 50 mins) using lemon juice as the acid. Would never have considered it without your guide...thanks again

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Good man. As Aleman says, cane sugar, beet sugar - it's all sucrose and there is no difference at all.

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Well, here I go quoting myself, because for the first time ever, I have just used Free Trade Tate and Lyle Cane Sugar as opposed to the usual stuff I pick up from the local co-op - Silver Spoon Beet Sugar.

I'm not sure whether the old Tate and Lyle was beet or cane before it became a Free Trade product - to tell the truth, I'd never looked before. I will from now on - I had a life-changing moment today (like Aleman, my background was science).

The specifications of both products and chemical analysis suggest that they should be alike, but obviously there are trace chemicals that make them behave totally differently (the claim is '99.95% alike').

The Tate and Lyle is horrible stuff to handle - you get a nasty translucent boil which forms huge bubbles around 130C and it goes very syrupy and thick. There is also a huge amount of 'ringing' where the sugar congeals around the saucepan just above the surface of the syrup. When the temperature rises to 135C and you add 2 or 3 tablespoons full of cold water and stir to drop it down within range, the boil is violent and you are in great danger of scalding yourself. I even got splashes on my spectacles - glad I was wearing them. I also needed twice the time to get just half of the darkening.

As the syrup cooled, a huge number of crystals formed together with a surface scum - I have had to dilute the syrup by a further 25% to get them back into solution. Tate and Lyle Free Trade Cane Sugar = Muck.

Luckyeddie recommends beet sugar only.

mattybabsy said:

resurrecting this thread cos I have a question- just got brewferms Abbey, Grand Cru and Diabolo. Should I use a (coopers?) brew enhancer pack with these for the sugar? It says I can use raw cane sugar- is that stuff able to be bought at tescos? I'm just wondering if there's a simpler less intimidating alternative to making this candi sugar?!

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You probably shouldn't be using BKE or anything else with malt extract in it, those Belgian styles are supposed to be brewed with sugar, even the professionals use it. Add loads more malt and it's going to end up too sweet and with too much body, closer to a barley wine.

What sort of amounts of phosphoric acid are needed and what to neutalise with ? Sodium hydroxide is very aggressive and best avoided - harder to come by potassium hydroxide would be better,maybe ?

I realise that the accurate answer would be linked to the percentage strength of the acid and alkali , but in general what sort of percentage amount of each to the syrup, whole ? I have electronic pH testers for fluids....somewhere.......

shocker said:

What sort of amounts of phosphoric acid are needed and what to neutalise with ? Sodium hydroxide is very aggressive and best avoided - harder to come by potassium hydroxide would be better,maybe ?

I realise that the accurate answer would be linked to the percentage strength of the acid and alkali , but in general what sort of percentage amount of each to the syrup, whole ? I have electronic pH testers for fluids....somewhere.......

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Sorry, I missed this - been on holiday.

You would only be using phosphoric acid and neutralising with NaOH if you were making Candi Sugar on a commercial scale. Just squeeze a quarter of a lemon or use a quarter of a level teaspoonful of citric acid or cream of tartar to a kilo of sugar. The marginally reduced pH will make very little difference to the acidity of your wort, especially if you start throwing gypsum etc into the mash tun.

Thanks - was startin to get geared up for heavy duty chemistry there !

Just about to make my first batch for use in a Brewferm kit.

My question is do I deduct the 'liquid' amount of the candi syrup from the hot water I add to the kit. I'm asking as the kit is only 15l so don't want to end up diluting it too much.

Reburner said:

Just about to make my first batch for use in a Brewferm kit.

My question is do I deduct the 'liquid' amount of the candi syrup from the hot water I add to the kit. I'm asking as the kit is only 15l so don't want to end up diluting it too much.

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Reburner, New to the home brew scene and new to this forum, infact, this is the first forum i have ever joined.
Any way an answer to your question ( I know it's very late ) The amount of sugar used to make the candi syrup it the final amout of sugar regardless of the amout of water used to thin is down.

I now have a question.
I've a Brewferm ready to do ( Ambiorix ) and it will be my 4th kit and i'm trying to be clever by making candi sugar. I followed Luckyeddie's instructions but i think i may have rushed it.
He said keep the temp between 125 and 135 C. I let it go upto 160 C .
The colour of the syrup turned out great and it smells fine but it did change colour very quickley.
QUESTION>>>>> Have i burnt the sugar>>>>> Should i start again>>>>>>
Don't want to ruin a good brew for the sake of a bag of sugar.
Thanks.

P.S. It is Luckyeddie's fault. The instructions told me to have a pint or two while it is boiling. The problem was i started this at 8:30 this morning.

making some here atm, and following this recipie:

2lbs sugar
1 cup water
3 tsp of diammonium phosphate/ammonium sulphate (youngs yeast nutrient)

goto 290 oF
add another cup
bring back to 290
and a thrid cup of water
bring to 240.


anyways, going ok. the smell is not what i expected. it smells sweet, but the initial smell as its boiling is more acid/sulphuric. I'm a little concerned about this. kind of smell will give me a headache soon!

thoughts?

thanks

Matthew

Will be having a go at this tonight! :)

Well that went well, thanks a lot, now tucked up in fridge until cultivate some west ale yeast, how long will this keep in a pet?

Just thinking about cutting corners and being lazy...would it be possible to start with golden syrup and adding a bit of water and heating to increase the darkness?

This is interesting. I'm Belgian and we used candi syrup at home for baking, or even just a candi syrup sandwich. There's a famous (in Belgium) breadpudding recipe for which it is essential. The syrup I'm familiar with is practically black: http://www.bestmart.be/images/categories/Suiker Candico Kandijsiroop 450g.jpg (a few years back I bought a jar of treacle thinking it was the same thing.....big mistake)

I didn't know you could make this yourself. Should you ever find yourself in Belgium you could pick up candi syrup from all supermarkets for around € 1.75 for 400ml (about £1.40). But of course it would be more fun to make it from scratch.

I made my first batch of candi last night using this guide, would not have bothered without it, thanks a bunch! The hardest part was remembering to keep an eye on the thermometer while having a brew!