Hobgoblin gold

clibit said:

Gold is a Wychwood beer, made at the Wychwood brewery. I don't believe you can get Wychwood yeast, but you want a high attenuation English strain like WLP007/S04, going by that FG of 1007.

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I think brewlabs would have it if you asked them, 'for a strain similar to Wychwood' but wouldn't admit it, as they have 3,500+ strains on their bank from what I've read on other forums. If the OP really wanted that paricular strain for his HG Gold clone

IronBlue said:

I measured some from a bottle (at 20C) and the FG was 1.007 which really surprised me - enough to get another bottle to double check which I haven't done yet. It has some sweetness that offsets the apparent dryness so I suspect it may have Vienna or Munich in it as there is not much colour. (It says Barley and Wheat, 'Barley' could mean anything....

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This is some good investigation work. I guess make sure you've absolutely smashed all the CO2 out when you make another gravity measurement.

I think you are possibly right about the additional perceived sweetness if the gravity is indeed 1.007. I'm not sure about Munich/Vienna though. I've added Vienna at around 10-20% to pale ales and I think it adds more of a biscuity sweetness. I wonder if you could maybe add a very small quantity of light crystal instead; say 2-3%. The hops add some floral sweetness too.

As for yeast, I think I'd go with something quite attenuative as suggested, but I don't think it should have a strong presence like you might find in some bitters. The beer has a light palate, and you don't want to muddle with those American hop flavours. These days I tend to always ferment cool and rise at the end to get maximum attenuation.

rodabod said:

This is some good investigation work. I guess make sure you've absolutely smashed all the CO2 out when you make another gravity measurement.

I think you are possibly right about the additional perceived sweetness if the gravity is indeed 1.007. I'm not sure about Munich/Vienna though. I've added Vienna at around 10-20% to pale ales and I think it adds more of a biscuity sweetness. I wonder if you could maybe add a very small quantity of light crystal instead; say 2-3%. The hops add some floral sweetness too.

As for yeast, I think I'd go with something quite attenuative as suggested, but I don't think it should have a strong presence like you might find in some bitters. The beer has a light palate, and you don't want to muddle with those American hop flavours. These days I tend to always ferment cool and rise at the end to get maximum attenuation.

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Yeah, completely agree with this after thinking more, I've used Vienna and Munich a lot and Munich does add a lot sweetness. However it does take the colour away from 'yellow' towards orange even if it's still light. Thinking about this and Clibit's post, I was wondering about Caramalt (28EBC) or Carapils (4EBC) which definitely add sweetness and body (in addition to the wheat) to counter that 1.007.

I'll taste and measure it again tonight and then start looking at recipe construction and colours etc....

(there was definitely no CO2 in that last sample and it was 20C, still not sure I believe it!)

Also agree with clibit on hops, this is no hop bomb is it! It's an English ale with a few more hops than normal, and there is no way Marstons are going to endorse the carefree use of Citra and Nelson!

I think Caramalt would be a good call.

OK, there is a small amount of backtracking in this post :lol:

I've just been chewing on 2 bottles of Hob Gold, and looking at the colour and FG again. As you can see this bottle is bang on 1.008.

I'm finding it a bit more bitter than I realised, and a little bit more dry. I think what is throwing me is it isn't thin, there is some mouthfeel there, a good soft water profile, and that slight sweetness. But. There is not much malt at all. So my backtrack is - I think it is just base malt and wheat! :grin:

There is some very good head retention and lacing for a commercial bottle, so along with the body/mouthfeel, I think the wheat content may be nearer 10% than a 'more normal' 5%.

So my clone attempt would be built around:

90% MO
10% Wheat
1.0042/1.0043 to 1.008
81% attenuation (bang on for WLP007 at 65 mash from data for a few I've made)
4.5% ABV
Soft water profile (I would build from RO for a pale profile with reasonably low mineral content)
About 0.85 IBU/OG, so about 36 IBU (it's a bit more bitter than I thought)

Bittered with Pilgrim and Summit 50/50 leaving a few IBUs for Nelson and Citra at 5 minutes.
Then a Nelson/Citra steep after flameout at <80C

Any comments welcome then I'm happy to build a recipe.

It was the slight sweetness that got me. Even the Mrs liked it and she doesn't drink beer often . Maybe it is the Nelson as she drinks sauv blanc. It is a really light colour. Definitely more wheat.

IronBlue said:

OK, there is a small amount of backtracking in this post :lol:

I've just been chewing on 2 bottles of Hob Gold, and looking at the colour and FG again. As you can see this bottle is bang on 1.008.

I'm finding it a bit more bitter than I realised, and a little bit more dry. I think what is throwing me is it isn't thin, there is some mouthfeel there, a good soft water profile, and that slight sweetness. But. There is not much malt at all. So my backtrack is - I think it is just base malt and wheat! :grin:

There is some very good head retention and lacing for a commercial bottle, so along with the body/mouthfeel, I think the wheat content may be nearer 10% than a 'more normal' 5%.

So my clone attempt would be built around:

90% MO
10% Wheat
1.0042/1.0043 to 1.008
81% attenuation (bang on for WLP007 at 65 mash from data for a few I've made)
4.5% ABV
Soft water profile (I would build from RO for a pale profile with reasonably low mineral content)
About 0.85 IBU/OG, so about 36 IBU (it's a bit more bitter than I thought)

Bittered with Pilgrim and Summit 50/50 leaving a few IBUs for Nelson and Citra at 5 minutes.
Then a Nelson/Citra steep after flameout at <80C

Any comments welcome then I'm happy to build a recipe.

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I think you are in the right area there, agree about the malts, the hops won't be too far off either, I reckon.

Recipe below, note my batch size is 59 litres and efficiency is set to 81%. I use Propino rather than Maris Otter as I get it from a local brewery for £12 a sack!

(I have also shared this on BeerSmith and attached the file)

Recipe: AG#67 Hobgoblin Gold
Brewer: BeerFish

--------------------------
Boil Size: 77.00 l
Post Boil Volume: 67.00 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 59.00 l
Bottling Volume: 54.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.0425 SG
Estimated Color: 7.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 36.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 81.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 88.4 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8.83 kg Propino (5.7 EBC) Grain 1 90.0 %
0.98 kg Wheat, Torrified (4.0 EBC) Grain 2 10.0 %
19.00 g Pilgrim [11.50 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 3 9.3 IBUs
19.00 g Summit [17.00 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 4 13.7 IBUs
60.00 g Citra [14.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 5 7.2 IBUs
60.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 5.8 IBUs
70.00 g Citra [14.90 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 m Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
70.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpoo Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35 Yeast 9 -

Total Grain Weight: 9.82 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 25.04 l of water at 72.3 C 65.0 C 90 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun , 31.14l, 31.14l) of 77.0 C water
Notes:
------
Yeast set to 81% AA for WLP007 at 65 mash.

298g hops feels about right, it's not too hoppy. Flameout hops are steeped for 30 minutes after cooling to 80C - steep time set to zero so Beersmith doesn't add any IBUs from this addition (it's below 80C not 100C, so no Alpha acids should be extracted)

Water - Yellow Bitter Profile

View attachment Hobgoblin Gold.bsmx

Wow, would not know where to start. Sounds good with Nelson and citra. Better start getting some kit together and give ag a go.
Had been watching a sabco brew magic on eBay. Was going at a silly price of about £100, eventually sold in last minute for £568. Still a bargain. But could not get any answers off seller. God knows where I would of put it, could of told Mrs it was a new cooking range!!

I can post a standard 23L version later if you wish, this is just the dump from BeerSmith for my setup.

It's been mentioned here already, but I'd maybe be careful on the relative amount of Nelson used; I usually add something like 2/3 Nelson additions compared to the other hops so as not to overpower too much. Depends on the recipe though, really.

OK rodabod, good plan. Here is the recipe normalised to 23 litres and 75% efficiency, I have also updated the Alpha Acids to more realistic 2015 crop values:


Hobgoblin Gold (23L)
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.0425 SG
Estimated FG: 1.008 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 36.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.72 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (4.5 EBC) 90.0 %
0.41 kg Wheat, Torrified (4.0 EBC) 10.0 %
9.00 g Pilgrim [9.30 %] - Boil 75.0 min 9.0 IBUs
9.00 g Summit [16.20 %] - Boil 75.0 min 15.7 IBUs
25.00 g Citra [14.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min 7.6 IBUs
17.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min 4.2 IBUs
30.00 g Citra [14.90 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)

Mash In 65.0 C 90 min

Yeast WLP007 (65C mash) (or maybe Nottingham for a dry yeast which would probably do 81% at a warmer 66C mash)

Flameout hops are steeped for 30 minutes after cooling to 80C so they don't add further IBUs.

Keep looking at pots and pans, water boilers etc. Want to give this a go.

It's an old thread but has anyone on here had a go at this recipe?

I've not had chance to have a go. I have moved onto ag brewing. At the moment I have a lot of hops, but not what would be needed for this. So will have to use those up first.
Just done a good purity mad goose clone that I'm really impressed with though.

HI everyone,

I'm also a fan of the Hobgoblin Gold and want to have a crack at replicating it with this recipe. However, being fairly new to the brewing world I'm only at the partial mash brewing stage and haven't progressed onto AG yet.

Could anyone tell me if it is possible to replicate this using DME?

Thanks.

W

dan_c said:

HI everyone,

I'm also a fan of the Hobgoblin Gold and want to have a crack at replicating it with this recipe. However, being fairly new to the brewing world I'm only at the partial mash brewing stage and haven't progressed onto AG yet.

Could anyone tell me if it is possible to replicate this using DME?

Thanks.

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The grains are marks otter and wheat so extra light and wheat DME should be close.

Just keep the dme dwe ratios the same and plug into a brew calc to get the amounts.

dad_of_jon said:

W

The grains are marks otter and wheat so extra light and wheat DME should be close.

Just keep the dme dwe ratios the same and plug into a brew calc to get the amounts.

Click to expand...

Thanks, didn't realise it was as straight forward as that! I'll give it a go and see what happens :thumb:

IronBlue said:

OK rodabod, good plan. Here is the recipe normalised to 23 litres and 75% efficiency, I have also updated the Alpha Acids to more realistic 2015 crop values:


Hobgoblin Gold (23L)
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.0425 SG
Estimated FG: 1.008 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 36.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.72 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (4.5 EBC) 90.0 %
0.41 kg Wheat, Torrified (4.0 EBC) 10.0 %
9.00 g Pilgrim [9.30 %] - Boil 75.0 min 9.0 IBUs
9.00 g Summit [16.20 %] - Boil 75.0 min 15.7 IBUs
25.00 g Citra [14.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min 7.6 IBUs
17.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min 4.2 IBUs
30.00 g Citra [14.90 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)

Mash In 65.0 C 90 min

Yeast WLP007 (65C mash) (or maybe Nottingham for a dry yeast which would probably do 81% at a warmer 66C mash)

Flameout hops are steeped for 30 minutes after cooling to 80C so they don't add further IBUs.

Click to expand...

Sorry for my lack of knowledge on the technical terms, but I don't understand the recipe. It seems to be in a random order for a newbie like myself.

Am I correct:

• Everything in Kg is the grain bill.
• Mash into 65.0C water and infuse for 90 minutes
• Boiling time is 75 mins
• Everything with a type = Boil is hops. Does nn.n min mean how long from the end of the 75 mins boil you add that hop addition, i.e some hops go in as soon as you reach the boil?
• Steep/Whirlpool Hop - not sure at all what this mean and how it translates to when you add it - is it after the 75 mins boil, I whirlpool until the temperature drops to 80C, before I run it through the chiller plate?
  • What is flameout hops, and which hops in the recipe are flameout ones?
• A pkg is the yeast. Yeast (65C mash) - what does that mean?
• Are there any fermentation instructions?

Thought it worth resurrecting this thread to let you know that I’ve brewed this using the recipe posted by IronBlue and it’s a cracker – almost identical to the original beer.

I found this thread while searching for a clone recipe for Gold Hobgoblin but wasn’t sure how it would turn out as no one appeared to have actually attempted it. Well, I have and it’s great! I bottled it about four weeks ago and did a side by side comparison with the original beer at the weekend. The colour and aroma are identical but my beer has a slightly sharper citrus flavour and a more pronounced wheat finish (which I think is actually nicer than the Wychwood original). However, the difference is subtle and I’d definitely recommend this recipe for anyone looking for a good Gold Hobgoblin clone.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread and especially to IronBlue for the recipe.

Here’s the recipe I brewed (the minor changes from IronBlue’s recipe were only made to reflect the ingredients I had – e.g. only Summit hops for bittering)

Batch size 23ltrs (OG 1047 / FG 1009 / 5%ABV)

3.8kg Crisp Maris Otter pale malt
425g Crisp Torrified wheat malt
20g Summit hops (12% AA)
55g Citra hops (13% AA)
37g Nelson Sauvin hops (11% AA)
Nottingham dried yeast

Mash 90 mins @ 66c

Boil: 70 mins:
20g Summit @ 70mins
25g Citra + 17g Nelson Sauvin @ 5mins
30g Citra + 20g Nelson Sauvin @ 0mins (hops added and whirlpooled once temp reduced to 80c.

Primary fermentation for 14 days at 19c, cold crashed and bottled with 0.5tsp golden caster sugar per 500ml bottle.