Extract why?

I entered the draw on Jim's cause I wanted to give extract a try + I really wanted to win something its fun to win.

Anyway after a bit of messing around I'm using LME in a Dr Smutos Golden but the more I think about it the less I'm impressed by the idea of extract brewing in the UK.

The cost of extracts is high and the range of types available in the Uk is small.

I'm doing partial mash so I'll still have to treat my water and it won't even be much of a time saving.

If I'd done full extract I'd still have had to boil, all be it a much reduced volume, which makes it easier on a stove top. However I would have had to accept huge restrictions on the type of beer I could brew.

On consideration taking in to account the price of extracts and the limited range available I'm of the opinion that a good 2 Can kit is a better option brewing batches of beer. The cost is roughly similar and the range available is huge.

I'm now inclined to see extracts as something to make starters from, additions to replace sugar in a kit or as a way of bumping up SG rather than a good basis for a batch.

After all what is a kit but hopped Malt extract?

I'll will be keeping some extract around but on the above basis.

Have I missed something, some reason why extract brewing is a great thing?

atb. Aamcle

PS I'll have one tin spare of Light LME, any suggestions for a small full extract batch? I should try to be fair.

I've never been an extract brewer because, as you point out, the cost. I think the big attraction to extract brewing is time saving. Yes you still have to boil it but you don't have to mash and sparge which saves 1 hour +. Anyone who is tight for time will appreciate this

I understand extract brew taste better than kits (this is an unknown to me tbh) too so that is also an attraction rather than just making kits

I did one extract brew and then decided the same.. Don't get me wrong being able to use fresh hops and a decent yeast is an immediate upgrade from a kit, but when I was doing it the cost of DME was off putting, it seemed cheaper to do kits..

I also think extract beers can taste the same too.. or to put it they have a flavour which carries in most of the ones I tried..

However I will admit steeping some crystal not having to worry about a mash and sparge stage and just pour in the boil stage I can see the appeal.. even as a half way house before you move on..and easier with a smaller pot.. It does have its advantages. You also with a smaller pot have much less wort to cool and heat so time saved there..

I've done just one extract brew, which was a HBC extract kit (American PA) which came with 3kg of extract and a very small quantity of grain, plus three pouches of hops. I have to agree with most of the sentiment above, I'm not hugely impressed. Put it this way, if you were to offer me one of my extract brews or a Youngs AIPA it would be the Youngs every day of the week. When you consider the fact the extract takes HOURS longer to brew, I ask myself why bother?

I do note that HBC sell 1.5kg of extract for under £5 so can definitely see this as a viable alternative to brew enhancer for kits.

I'm vacillating, do I put the all time and effort of an AG brew into Dr's Golden and risk comprising it with LME. Or do I brew it to the recipe knowing I'll get a nice light Ale?

Mmmmm...........

Aamcle

Everyone has a differnet amount of time and money to devote to there hobbies and I can see extract having its place. Also just comparing extract to 2 can kits you say the range of kits is huge but your still just making a beer someone else designed while extract you can taylor the hops to your exact taste as well as blend extracts, you could just as easily say why get 2 can kits when buying beer isn't that much more expensive and theres a huge range.

exact taste

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Err no, if you can't get the right base malt your stuck, for full flexibility you need to brew AG.

kits are more or less Malt Extract will Hops and can be adjusted just like other Malt Extract but more has been done for you and a huge range is available that include the correct malts.

My quibbles about extract brewing are two fold

In the UK there seems to be a poorer choice of extracts based on specific types of grain.
They cost and you still have to add grains and hops.

I may be being unreasonable so can you recommend a good extract recipe using Light LME? Not a partial mash if I have to do a proper mash I might as well do AG.

Aamcle

simon12 said:

Everyone has a differnet amount of time and money to devote to there hobbies and I can see extract having its place. Also just comparing extract to 2 can kits you say the range of kits is huge but your still just making a beer someone else designed while extract you can taylor the hops to your exact taste as well as blend extracts, you could just as easily say why get 2 can kits when buying beer isn't that much more expensive and theres a huge range.

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A decent two can kit is twenty quid which gives out 46 bottles.
You cant buy beer that comes even close for that price IMO

aamcle said:

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Not a partial mash if I have to do a proper mash I might as well do AG.

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I came to the same conclusion after completing my one and only Partial Mash early on this month.

I was extract brewing back in the 60's when there was little or no choice if you wanted to get into home brewing. The available kits were terrible and apart from a few dedicated people home brewing AG was the stuff of dreams!

As a result, most of the brewers I knew had their own extract recipe tuned to suit the seasons and their own palates and pockets. (TBH I wish I could remember my Summer Beer recipe!)

With the Partial Mash I seemed to spend more time cleaning and sterilising equipment than with either of the two alternatives, so I will probably give the system a miss in the future.

However, my one proviso is that I will hold fire on finalising the decision until after I have tasted the conditioned beer! :whistle: :whistle:

aamcle said:

I may be being unreasonable so can you recommend a good extract recipe using Light LME? Not a partial mash if I have to do a proper mash I might as well do AG.

Aamcle

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This. As I said I've only done one extract brew and it involved a partial mash. Now given it was only a TINY amount of grain, I'm pretty sure it didn't really have much impact on the final beer. That said, I still had to go through the process, and surely it wouldn't have been proportionately more work had I done a full mash?

My issue would be capacity and equipment. I've only got a 15litre pot and no real scope to store anything bigger, so extract on the surface is an attractive idea, I'm just not overly impressed with the one brew I have done.

Think I will do some kits with mini mash to see how they compare. I've got a Coopers Lager kit, plus 1kg of lager malt so will see how that goes. Assume I will need to add more fermentibles right enough.

Hi To address the balance a little ;-)

Regarding extract: time and space are the big considerations. 20 min boil tops.

cost: well its dearer than AG but still cheaper than buying beer in. It does cost me around 90p a bottle, but that 90p brew tastes far better that anything you can buy in the supermarket for under £2. you can alter your abv easily and brew light , dark and wheat styles. I'm not rolling in money, but time and space are more important to me.

I will do partial mashes and grain steeps where appropriate so I'm not afraid of grain even though my 1st AG was meh! - It's easier to get consistency with extract in my experience due to less variables and it's given me all the beer styles I like (apart from Sour beers) :lol:

Weazy

In a 15 litre pot you can mini Biab :- http://www.biabrewer.info/viewforum.php.

Worth a read.

Aamcle

I was hoping you'd chip in D_o_J as I know your an extract brewer. As you say you only have to boil extract for 15-20mins and I bet if you combined this with no-chill you could knock out a brew in about an hour?

aamcle said:

Weazy

In a 15 litre pot you can mini Biab :- http://www.biabrewer.info/viewforum.php.

Worth a read.

Aamcle

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Or a maxi-biab

I make a 23L brew in a 19L pot so you could probably do about 18L-19L in a 15L pot

dad_of_jon said:

Hi To address the balance a little ;-)

Regarding extract: time and space are the big considerations. 20 min boil tops.

cost: well its dearer than AG but still cheaper than buying beer in. It does cost me around 90p a bottle, but that 90p brew tastes far better that anything you can buy in the supermarket for under �£2. you can alter your abv easily and brew light , dark and wheat styles. I'm not rolling in money, but time and space are more important to me.

I will do partial mashes and grain steeps where appropriate so I'm not afraid of grain even though my 1st AG was meh! - It's easier to get consistency with extract in my experience due to less variables and it's given me all the beer styles I like (apart from Sour beers) :lol:

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Isn't the length of boil more related to hops than malt? Do you actually need to boil liquid extract?

wheazy_joe said:

Isn't the length of boil more related to hops than malt? Do you actually need to boil liquid extract?

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It's related to both when making AG but for extract your only really sanitising it. But even then I'm not sure you even need to do that. When I used to make kits with DME I just used to chuck it in the FV with the kit.

Edit. Oops skim reading again. Yes the length is determined by the hop utilisation of the Alpha Acids in the hops

Ah I see this is a copy of a thread on the other forum, so I'll copy and paste my reply for the benefit of others.

I do all 3 types of brewing: AG, Extract and modified kits.

AG is no doubt the best, no homebrew "twang" and infinite variety but has the disadvatage of the time taken. Yes I know that you can do other things whilst it's mashing etc. but you still need to be around the house and watching the clock. For those of us with busy lives ferrying the kids around, sometimes that's just too big an overhead at a weekend.

Modified kits can produce some good beers, but the disadvantage is that you don't know what's in the original kit recipe so it's hard to predict the outcome. I've made some very nice beers this way, but it's a bit limited in my experience, and they do need time to come good: kits are much better these days but still can have that homebrew "twang".

Extract: think of this similar to modified kits/mini-mash except the "kit" part is plain malt extract, either liquid (LME) or dried (DME). You have a lot more control over the resultant brew and can successfully convert many AG recipes to extract. The big disadvantge is cost: liquid is the most expensive, you can sometimes reduce the cost by buying in bulk or using the dried stuff / spraymalt. I still have a soft spot for Extract brewing, and converted one of my AG recipes to Extract and made it a few weeks ago. I'll let you know what it's like when I sample it tomorrow. Mine have always tasted more like AG beers than modified kits, I've never had the "twang".

Approx recipe, assuming you've got 2kg LME (if you've got more just size up the recipe), note that it's a 13L volume brew. You just need some Amarillo hops and some Crystal.

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 13.0
Original Gravity (OG): 1.049 (°P): 12.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 4.81 %
Colour (SRM): 7.4 (EBC): 14.6
Bitterness (IBU): 33.3 (Average)

Grain Bill
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2.000 kg Liquid Malt Extract - Light (95.24%)
0.100 kg Crystal 60 standard (4.76%)

Hop Bill
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13.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/L)
14.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (1.1 g/L)
14.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (1.1 g/L)

Yup, its embarrassing but I put this in the wrong forum. I'll try the recipe.


Aamcle

MyQul said:

I was hoping you'd chip in D_o_J as I know your an extract brewer. As you say you only have to boil extract for 15-20mins and I bet if you combined this with no-chill you could knock out a brew in about an hour?

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90 mins cos i'm a bit on the slow side :-(

wheazy_joe said:

Isn't the length of boil more related to hops than malt? Do you actually need to boil liquid extract?

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it is more to do with hops but the dme/dwe is mixed in with the water used for hops anyways.

The only DMW DWE i'd not boil would be factory sealed DME - other extract may have been re-packaged for say a 25kg sack, so you might as well give it a boil with the hops.

I've poured muntons dried extract straight into a fv without boiling and thats been fine. If I used hop extract after main fermentation I think I could get a brew sorted in about 15 mins. :-o (Pre kit cleaning/sanitizing time excluded)