Isinglass - what's going on here then?

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J

Jon474

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On Saturday I made up a couple of test samples to assess my isinglass batching rate.

1 pint with 1ml of isinglass

1 pint with 2ml of isinglass

At 10C within a few hours it became obvious that the ideal rate was somewhere between the two and so I dosed with 1.38ml per pint.

I then went away for three days leaving the test samples in the chiller at 10C. I have returned to this...

09112011170.jpg


09112011171.jpg


09112011167.jpg


Don't know how easy it will be to see the problem in these pictures. I have a good layer of settled yeast and debris on the base of the pint glass but I also have blobs of yeast/stuff "hanging" in the pint. Both samples seem to be similarly affected...the test sample size does not seem to have produced too much difference to the result. Gut feel seems to be that I have used too much isinglass but there is definitely a settled base to the sample...so there is material to drop out.

Strange...have I used too much isinglass? Have I not used enough? Is my batch of beer ruined?

I did not want to use isinglass in the first place...and now I wish I hadn't.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts
Jon (who is a bit fed up now)
 
Usual disclaimer - I am not an expert

Calm down dear! It's only a fining agent!

I recently mistakenly used 3 times the amount of isinglass i should have done for 2 x 1 gallon demi johns of wine.

I had a lot of blobs and stuff that looked like congealed fat hanging around near the top even after a lot of it had settled out. However, after a week or so this finally settled down to the bottom.

Therefore, my uneducated offering is to just wait for a few days and see if it settles. i don't see how your beer would be ruined though, the whole point of isinglass is that it's a fining agent which shouldn't have much affect on the taste of your brew.

Keep the faith man.
 
I think someone should have posted "Calm Down Dear!" as a reply.

Control samples have settled out nicely. The right dose was somewhere between 1ml and 2ml.

Tapped a cask of the beer this afternoon and it is clear as a bell.

Phew.

Take care
Jon
 
I think someone should have posted "Calm Down Dear!" as a reply.
Click to expand...

...and Shearclass did say exactly that. Sorry. Not with it when I typed that. Been a busy weekend. 1400 litres of beer brewed over eighteen hours on Saturday and Sunday.

6a00d83541ad8669e20162fc5fc813970d-pi


Brewlab made me up a batch of pitchable yeast which I picked up on Friday. They are really great people there. Pitched the yeast into 750 litres of George Perkins yesterday. Twenty four hours later the yeast is hurling itself around the FV in a very dynamic fashion. I just stood and watched it for ages...up and down, up and down...very hypnotic stuff, yeast...yep, very hypnotic...Matron, it's time for my blanket bath.

Art Brew...mash bed after the sparge...
13112011196.jpg


Standing next to 900 litres of boiling wort is definitely scary...
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Like lots of little fluffy clouds...yeast on Leeming Gold after 18 hours...
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Filth...I have to get in there and clean that out...
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George Perkins is being very lively...and that's before the yeast got to work...wort aeration went well
13112011198.jpg


Happy days...I love brewing me.

take care
Jon
 
Jon474 said:
and Shearclass did say exactly that.
Click to expand...

Sorry - that was ane edit to my original post! I wasn't trying to deceive you!

Looks like you know what you are talking about much moer than me anyway. I hope your brew works out.
 
Looks like you know what you are talking about much moer than me anyway.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha (hollow laugh).

Er, definitely not. You are very kind but sadly this will never be the case. I am realsiing that I still know very, very little. Every day is a learning experience. Certain aspects of the process get easier as I repeat them, but there is always something new to discover...and I love it.

I have never really used isinglass in a home brew setting, preferring, as many here do, to rely on time to clear down the beer. The first few brews I did at Rough Draft continued to use time as the method to clear the beer. It quickly became obvious to me that as you move casks a lot more in a commercial setting than you do at home - rack to ambient store, ambient to chiller, chiller to van, van to cellar - that using time to clear the beer just won't do...there isn't enough time between each step.

This post very obviously revealed my inexperience at using isinglass and especially so in a commercial setting. Having 500 litres of beer poised (as I feared) on the edge of disaster does tend to focus the mind...and raises the stress levels. Anyway, ironically, it was time that sorted out the problem and the beer is lovely and bright now.

I am grateful, as always, for my fellow brewers' comments and help. I am in the company of a huge number of experts. My thanks.

Kind regards
Jon
 
Hi Jon

I experimented with a couple of isinglass preparations as a home brewer. One, ready made up I got from a LHBS. Seemed OK but beer developed a sulphurous taste. Since the preparation said 'contains sulphur dioxide', I put it down to that and next tried making my own from dried isinglass. Took ages to reconstitute and didn't really work. I've since moved to using Dr Oetker gelatin from Tesco. 6 sachets for about £0.70. Use 1 per 5gallon and seems to work, and is cheap/doesn't go off. If you're getting the commercial stuff on a large scale at regular intervals then it should be fine. I think it has stability issues if kept for too long.
 
Hi there, I was chatting to a local micro brewer about Isinglass only last week. He recommended to me that the brew needs agitating once it's been added, ideally three times, which may explain why your samples didn't clear fully.
 
Thanks to both pj and Nunfa1 for your replies. I do like your shiny set up pj...I need a 100L set-up for the brewery so I can do small test runs for recipes. :hmm:

I use "ready to use" isinglass from Murphys...it has about six weeks life on it. I have to store it between 4C and 14C - I keep it at 10C, which is probably a little warm - and always have to make sure it isn't becoming denatured. I used 100ml per nine gallon cask for the last gyle - 400ml per barrel - probably I could have got away with a little less.

Interesting about the agitation...I thought I had tried to really give the samples a mix but perhaps not enough? For the main addition, I put the isinglass into each cask and rack the beer on top of it - fair amount of mixing there but is it enough, I wonder? - I then roll the cask to the ambient store, and roll it once again from ambient to chiller. Certainly the beer I am pulling out now seems lovely and bright so I am happy...for now.

Take care
Jon
 
It's great to see your plans coming to fruition, congratulations :thumb: :cheers:

What's the brewery called?
 
Hi Ed

Good to hear from you. Drinking beer in the Church End Brewery seems a long time ago. :drunk:

The brewery business is called Rough Draft Brewing Company...Rough Draft for short. The name seems to be going down reasonably well.

I am on Facebook as RoughDraftBrewing, on Twitter as @roughdraftuk and am just starting to develop the brewery website. It's all go.

Take care
Kind regards
Jon
 
Good name, I'll look out for it, also I'll be tapping you up for the recipe for George Perkins ;)

You're a busy man, good luck and best wishes :thumb:
 
hiya mate, we use vickers triple strength isinglas, and cut it 130 ml of finings with 260 of water(total vol 390ml per firkin), i add at point of dispatch(roll the casks out and remove shive, add finings, put new shive in, sell to boozer :D ), i find my beer is brite within 24 hrs. hope this helps
 
Jon474 said:
Thanks to both pj and Nunfa1 for your replies. I do like your shiny set up pj...I need a 100L set-up for the brewery so I can do small test runs for recipes. :hmm:

I use "ready to use" isinglass from Murphys...it has about six weeks life on it. I have to store it between 4C and 14C - I keep it at 10C, which is probably a little warm - and always have to make sure it isn't becoming denatured. I used 100ml per nine gallon cask for the last gyle - 400ml per barrel - probably I could have got away with a little less.

Interesting about the agitation...I thought I had tried to really give the samples a mix but perhaps not enough? For the main addition, I put the isinglass into each cask and rack the beer on top of it - fair amount of mixing there but is it enough, I wonder? - I then roll the cask to the ambient store, and roll it once again from ambient to chiller. Certainly the beer I am pulling out now seems lovely and bright so I am happy...for now.

Take care
Jon
Click to expand...

My set up isn't the prettiest or most high tech on here but built with budget considered, easily could be 100L using bigger pots from the same supplier. A plate chiller would be more efficient and easier than the self build CC, or use an immersion chiller which is much easier to make and use. I'd say you could build a (100L HLT/ 70L MT /100L Copper) one for about £400 and a couple of days labour. Have a butchers at everyone elses kit in the HERMS/shiny section. You probably wouldn't want to go for a full HERMS system if its a pilot plant for single infusion mash microbrewing?

Re Isinglass, the brewer I know adds it at racking, half fills each cask, adds finings, then tops up. Don't know which one or how much.
 

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