Jacketed Fermenter Using Maxi 310 Cooler

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Fettucini

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Built this jacketed fermenter using 8 meters of copper coil wrapped tight around a plastic 25 liter fermenter, then insulated it on the outside with about 3 inches of this foam. The copper coil is connected to the python pump on the maxi 310 cooler. Water temp in the cooler bath reads 1 centigrade, so i'm assuming that's the temperature it's being pumped out at, which should be ideal for cold crashing, but after 2 days of leaving it on only managed to get the beer temperature down to 9 centigrade.
Today I added a couple of layers more insulation, and the black insulation on the pipes, so will see how it goes tomorrow.. ideally i'd like to get the beer to about 4 centigrade for the cold crash.
Has anyone else got a jacketed fermenter to work effectively using a cooler like this?

Jacketed Cooler.jpg


Jacketed Cooler2.jpg
 
Not got one but worked with heat exchangers for forty+ years.

Heat always flows into cold and slowing down the heat exchange process is always a function of the insulating properties of the chosen barrier multiplied by the thickness.

In the situation you are in, from the moment the cold water leaves the cooler it will be taking in heat from its surroundings. Here are some suggestions to improve the heat exchange around the FV.

1. Obviously, the most effective cooling effect will happen if the copper tubing is immersed in the liquid inside the FV but failing that the tubing must be in direct contact with the outer wall of the FV so that there is a maximum chance of heat exchange.

2. It will increase the rate of heat exchange if the first layer of insulation is a layer of aluminium foil wrapped on the outside of the copper tubes to ensure that heat coming from the FV goes into the tubing and not the surrounding insulation.

3. Make sure that the cooling liquid inside the tubing wrapped around the FV flows from top to bottom (the warm part of the FV will be at the top and therefore requires most cooling).
.
4. Any increase in the thickness of the insulation should also ensure that there are no paths through which air can flow and convect heat to the cooling tubes from the surrounding air.

5. Putting the pump on the outlet of the tubing so that it is sucking water from the cooler will ensure that the energy imparted by the pump will be put into the system after the water has completed its cooling function.

Hope this helps. :thumb:
 
I have 2 x 200L fermenters that work exactly like this controlled by an STC1000 and usind maxi 110 and 210.
 
I'm jealous of the nylon flooring. I have to use a small stool. wooden that is
 
Not got one but worked with heat exchangers for forty+ years.

Heat always flows into cold and slowing down the heat exchange process is always a function of the insulating properties of the chosen barrier multiplied by the thickness.

In the situation you are in, from the moment the cold water leaves the cooler it will be taking in heat from its surroundings. Here are some suggestions to improve the heat exchange around the FV.

1. Obviously, the most effective cooling effect will happen if the copper tubing is immersed in the liquid inside the FV but failing that the tubing must be in direct contact with the outer wall of the FV so that there is a maximum chance of heat exchange.

2. It will increase the rate of heat exchange if the first layer of insulation is a layer of aluminium foil wrapped on the outside of the copper tubes to ensure that heat coming from the FV goes into the tubing and not the surrounding insulation.

3. Make sure that the cooling liquid inside the tubing wrapped around the FV flows from top to bottom (the warm part of the FV will be at the top and therefore requires most cooling).
.
4. Any increase in the thickness of the insulation should also ensure that there are no paths through which air can flow and convect heat to the cooling tubes from the surrounding air.

5. Putting the pump on the outlet of the tubing so that it is sucking water from the cooler will ensure that the energy imparted by the pump will be put into the system after the water has completed its cooling function.

Hope this helps. :thumb:

Thanks for the suggestions, i'm going to give some of your ideas a try like the water flow direction. I think one of the main problems is the copper coil is not touching flat against the fermenter all the way round. Was hoping that having it everything properly insulated it wouldnt matter. Is there some sort of conduction substance i can fill into the gaps where the coil isn't touching flat against the plastic?
Took a reading today and the temperature was only at 8 centigrade, same as yesterday. Starting to think maybe the water isn't cold enough, although it does read 1 centigrade in the cooler bath.
 
I have 2 x 200L fermenters that work exactly like this controlled by an STC1000 and usind maxi 110 and 210.
Hi Simon, that's great to know the machine is capable of that. What temperature can you get your fermenters down to? Enough to cold crash?
Also, did you have to remove the inbuilt thermostats in the maxi coolers? Are you using the python line or the beer lines for recirculating cold water?
 
Thanks for the suggestions, i'm going to give some of your ideas a try like the water flow direction. I think one of the main problems is the copper coil is not touching flat against the fermenter all the way round. Was hoping that having it everything properly insulated it wouldnt matter. Is there some sort of conduction substance i can fill into the gaps where the coil isn't touching flat against the plastic?
Took a reading today and the temperature was only at 8 centigrade, same as yesterday. Starting to think maybe the water isn't cold enough, although it does read 1 centigrade in the cooler bath.

The best there is without going commercial is loads of aluminium foil.

Wrapped loosely round and round the outside of the copper pipe and then followed up with string (following the gap between the coils) to pull everything in towards the FV will ensure that even where the copper doesn't touch the plastic at least the heat can only go one way; which is from the FV and into the copper coil. (Always remember that you are NOT putting "cold" into the FV you are removing "heat" from the FV.)

Insulation put on top of the aluminium foil will then ensure that the heat from the FV is the only heat transferred to the fluid flowing through the copper tubing.

Also, the FV needs insulating at the top and bottom to ensure that no heat is entering the FV from outside and screwing up the system.

The one degree is a bit close to the desired four degrees but not so close as to be unachievable if everything is fully insulated and the cooling flow is kept going at a decent rate.

The time and expense required to make the system any better (e.g. changing the pump to give a faster flow rate) will probably take you into a situation where it may be easier and cheaper to look at installing a different system. :thumb: :thumb:
 
Hi Simon, that's great to know the machine is capable of that. What temperature can you get your fermenters down to? Enough to cold crash?
Also, did you have to remove the inbuilt thermostats in the maxi coolers? Are you using the python line or the beer lines for recirculating cold water?

Using the python line to circulate the water in the chiller. An STC1000 turns the whole chiller on and off at the temp. its set to so no need to do anything to the thermostat on the chiller. We chill the beer down to 6C before putting it in kegs and have never tried to go lower. It takes about 12 hours to go from 19C to 6C.
 
Using the python line to circulate the water in the chiller. An STC1000 turns the whole chiller on and off at the temp. its set to so no need to do anything to the thermostat on the chiller. We chill the beer down to 6C before putting it in kegs and have never tried to go lower. It takes about 12 hours to go from 19C to 6C.

Are you using external coils around the outside of the fermenter or submersed in the beer? I don't know why my fermenter won't drop below 8 centigrade.. maybe it's warming up when coming out of the tap for taking a reading, but i wouldn't imagine there'd be such a change.
Did you run into any problems getting it working well/ properly insulated?
 
I hope this thread is still alive... I'm thinking about purchasing maxi 310 to control temp in up to 4 plastic 220L blue drums. I was told by one online supplier that it would be sufficient cooler for these FV and that I need a solenoid operated control boxes for each line. I was thinking about using stainless steel immersion chiller coil or panels and wrap FV's in aluminium foil. Also to drive down the cost I was thinking about using InkBird temp control units (one for each fermenter). What are your thoughts? Will that work?
 
keep your eye on ebay, the square stainless steel product coils from the larger chest chillers appear every now and again for £10-£15.

These are easy to mount in a FV lid, and being SS not copper wont have any negative effect on the brew/yeast.

one i made earlier..
10524410133_5f15c53160_c.jpg
 
I have a maxi 310, it was converted to glycol, so I have two thermostats, one controls the temp of the water/glycol bath, the other switches the python pump on and off according to the temp in the FV (64l SS Chronicle) When I got it I switched it to -10 and fill the fv with water, set the python pump to 0 and let it rip, got a two inch ice layer on top and it about 4 degrees at the bottom, I expect with beer it would stratify like that due the alcohol content and will find out when I get back and crash my SHA that is in there now.
I suggest you convert your 310 to Glycol and add loads more copper. A better solution is to have the coil inside the fermentor, but is harder to do as you need to use stainless or, I think Alu can be used. I am trying to find some coils small enough to go inside a fastferment so I can use the two "Product" coils to control fermentation in my fastferments, battling to find them though...
 
I have a maxi 310, it was converted to glycol, so I have two thermostats, one controls the temp of the water/glycol bath, the other switches the python pump on and off according to the temp in the FV (64l SS Chronicle) When I got it I switched it to -10 and fill the fv with water, set the python pump to 0 and let it rip, got a two inch ice layer on top and it about 4 degrees at the bottom, I expect with beer it would stratify like that due the alcohol content and will find out when I get back and crash my SHA that is in there now.
I suggest you convert your 310 to Glycol and add loads more copper. A better solution is to have the coil inside the fermentor, but is harder to do as you need to use stainless or, I think Alu can be used. I am trying to find some coils small enough to go inside a fastferment so I can use the two "Product" coils to control fermentation in my fastferments, battling to find them though...

We now use our Maxi 310 to cold crash a 300 Lt conical fermenter. We use an immersed stainless steel "torpedo" in which we recirculate the cold water from the maxi 310. Fermenters are wrapped in insulation foam.
Problem is we don't get the fermenter as cold as we like for cold crashing, only to about 6 degrees. Is there a way to bring the bath temperature of the maxi 310 below zero that it reaches now? We have inkbird controllers if they'd help.
 

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