Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

MartinHaworth said:

Hope to do my first saison tomorrow. Very alkaline water at 212. Looking at circa 1ml per litre of crs.

This is my first go at water treatment, having only recently got my report from Phoenix analytical.

Any issue with this much crs? Should I cut my water with ashbeck? ... I'm trying to use fewer single use plastics...

Thanks

Martin

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Sorry Martin I only just saw this, presumably you've brewed this already.
Personally I would dilute my water if it was that high in alkalinity, a CRS addition at that rate is going to add a load of sulphate and chloride to probably already high amounts.

@Chippy_Tea would it be possible to replace the table in the OP with the one above in post #482?
Thanks mate.

@Chippy_Tea would it be possible to replace the table in the OP with the one above in post #482?
Thanks mate.

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Done. :thumba:

strange-steve said:

Sorry Martin I only just saw this, presumably you've brewed this already.
Personally I would dilute my water if it was that high in alkalinity, a CRS addition at that rate is going to add a load of sulphate and chloride to probably already high amounts.

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Thanks for this. I did the brew with the high level of CRS I indicated. I just bottled today - time will tell.

A couple of the fellas in the local club have got RO systems to tackle the high alkalinity.

Thanks again

Martin

MartinHaworth said:

Thanks for this. I did the brew with the high level of CRS I indicated. I just bottled today - time will tell.

A couple of the fellas in the local club have got RO systems to tackle the high alkalinity.

Thanks again

Martin

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I think saison is a pretty forgiving style, I bet it'll turn out fine

strange-steve said:

I didn't get a chance to proofread before posting yesterday, so made a couple of corrections. Please point out any other errors :)

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Great info Steve

I haven't started looking at water profiles yet so this is the first for me. I actually came on to see about how to reduce the calcium content to as low as possible for pumping through the cooling jacket on our braumeister plus.

I appreciate this isn't for water to brew with but how would you reduce calcium content for this? Also, what exactly is the hardness of water? What is the 'ppm'?

Dale Kirkwood said:

Great info Steve

I haven't started looking at water profiles yet so this is the first for me. I actually came on to see about how to reduce the calcium content to as low as possible for pumping through the cooling jacket on our braumeister plus.

I appreciate this isn't for water to brew with but how would you reduce calcium content for this? Also, what exactly is the hardness of water? What is the 'ppm'?

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It's not really my area of expertise, but calcium can be removed by filtering (Britta or much more effectively reverse osmosis) or through a water softener. It can also be reduced by boiling and decanting but this isn't a terribly efficient method. Could you use bottled water? Ashbeck comes in 5L bottles and is very soft.

Regarding your other questions, hardness is a measure of how much calcium and magnesium is in the water, both of which are beneficial for brewing. So contrary to the common misconception, hard water is good for brewing (it's alkanity which is generally undesirable).

PPM is simply the unit of measurement for ions in water. It stands for parts per million and is equivalent to milligrams per litre (because 1ml of water weighs 1000mg).

strange-steve said:

It's not really my area of expertise, but calcium can be removed by filtering (Britta or much more effectively reverse osmosis) or through a water softener. It can also be reduced by boiling and decanting but this isn't a terribly efficient method. Could you use bottled water? Ashbeck comes in 5L bottles and is very soft.

Regarding your other questions, hardness is a measure of how much calcium and magnesium is in the water, both of which are beneficial for brewing. So contrary to the common misconception, hard water is good for brewing (it's alkanity which is generally undesirable).

PPM is simply the unit of measurement for ions in water. It stands for parts per million and is equivalent to milligrams per litre (because 1ml of water weighs 1000mg).

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Brilliant Steve thanks

Yeah I can use bottled no problem. I'll probably do that first go and that gives me time to figure out which of the other options to go with

Hi @strange-steve

quite new to brewing especially AG. I have done 4 batches not great and have been thinking about water treatment. I read your post about 5 times and trying to execute on it so any help/support is really appreciated.

I know you said dont bother but I did. I ordered a water report from Yorkshire Water. I have also ordered the test packs also before I got the report but I see what you mean about their measurements--there is quite a swing on the results. But I think they are interesting. I have uploaded 2 pics from the report.

Slide 1:

1. Chlorine: So this tells me there is chlorine in the water which we could presume--less concerned about this as I will use campden tablets.

2. Alkalinity: The pH is showing this varies but ultimately I need to reduce this for my mash. But I need to know the total amount of alkalines (ppm) in the water and I can only do this with a test kit--correct? Ultiamately I need to reduce but dont have the numbers until I use the test kit.

3. Calcium
Slide 2:

The calcium looks ok'ish. But if the calcium mean average is correct for my water source is 74.7 and I am brewing a hoppy beer I should try to get it to 150 ppm which would be just over 0.33/l. Correct'ish?

Thanks--any help appreciated.

CJ

Hi @Gobaloon, firstly what you've underlined in the first pic is chloride rather than chlorine which is very different. Chlorine can be ignored because Campden tablets deal with it very effectively. Chloride on the other hand is a desirable ion in brewing water and enhances fullness of flavour like salt does in food.

In the future you'll probably want to look at adjusting the sulphate:chloride ratio but for now I would ignore those values until you've got to grips with the basics.

Secondly, ignore the pH value of your water. It's not the same as alkalinity and doesn't really have any impact on the mash pH. Alkalinity isn't listed on your report so you'll have to test that for yourself. Once you have that value you can then determine the correct adjustment based on the beer style.

Regarding calcium, it's a bit hard to see but does your report swing from min. 17 to max. 104? If so then I would suggest you need to test every time you brew and adjust from there.

Thx Steve. Makes sense. Need glasses re: chloride but understand.

Yes the swing is from 17 to 104. Crazy?!

I have kits on order. Your post has been a great help. Much appreciated.

CJ

It may be more appropriate in the 'advanced' water thread, but the latest Experimental brewing podcast is a discussion with @mabrungard (of Bru'n Water fame) all about brewing water - which was a good listen

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/brew-files-episode-45-water-water-everywhere

Great thread @strange-steve

I had a few searches through this thread and a quick read through the water treatment on the main forum too but just have a brief question

I'm only getting into water treatment now and have only done it with one 25litre batch where I added half a Campden tablet.

I am going to be doing a few more 1 gallon brews so I assume the ratio of tablet to water is the same? Or would half a tablet still do?

Dale Kirkwood said:

Great thread @strange-steve

I had a few searches through this thread and a quick read through the water treatment on the main forum too but just have a brief question

I'm only getting into water treatment now and have only done it with one 25litre batch where I added half a Campden tablet.

I am going to be doing a few more 1 gallon brews so I assume the ratio of tablet to water is the same? Or would half a tablet still do?

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Technically yes, the ratio is the same but if you can quarter a tablet then use that. If not I wouldn't actually be too worried about using half a tablet in a gallon. Yeast doesn't really like it but the SO2 will be well dissipated after the boil, before it gets anywhere near the yeast.

strange-steve said:

Technically yes, the ratio is the same but if you can quarter a tablet then use that. If not I wouldn't actually be too worried about using half a tablet in a gallon. Yeast doesn't really like it but the SO2 will be well dissipated after the boil, before it gets anywhere near the yeast.

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Cheers

Aye it could be hard getting a quarter with them being so brittle lol I'll maybe try weighing it out and if it's too difficult or futtery I'll just go half

to add 1/5 of a campden tablet crush a whole tablet and dissolve in 500 ml water and just add 100 mls

Hi Steve. I made a Vienna lager recently and it came out really well but i realised i had used a water profile for a pilsner. I have been using 0.1g of CC and gypsum per liter for all the water.
What could i do different next time i brew one? Cheers

I've been brewing for a couple of years now just using my tap water and have been generally happy with my beers. I recently brewed a lager using bottled water though and was blown away by the improvement! This got me thinking about water chemistry...

First things first, I took a look at the Yorkshire Water report for my supply and saw the following

Ca 91 Mg 8 Na 19 Cl 35 SO4 102 HCO3 321

Wow, my water has a massive alkalinity!

I took a look through this excellent post and I'm worried that using CRS isn't going to be suitable for my pales/lagers. It seems that the dose I would require would push the suphate and chloride levels far to high.

I'm not a fan of dark beers generally, which is a shame!! That said, in my opinion the best beer I have made to date was a Black IPA. The high alkalinity for the dark grains and the high sulphate levels for the hops may go some way to explaining that.



Is my tap water a write off for pale beers? I have ordered the two Salifert test kits to get some confirmation of the YW figures .


Edit:
After another afternoon of reading and playing with the Brunwater spreadsheets, I think my answer may lie in diluting my tap water with bottled water by around 50% and dosing with Phosphoric acid rather than CRS to reduce the alkalinity.
The Brunwater spreadsheets are epic.

braziliain said:

I think my answer may lie in diluting my tap water with bottled water by around 50% and dosing with Phosphoric acid rather than CRS to reduce the alkalinity.

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That's exactly what I do - works well

BeerCat said:

Hi Steve. I made a Vienna lager recently and it came out really well but i realised i had used a water profile for a pilsner. I have been using 0.1g of CC and gypsum per liter for all the water.
What could i do different next time i brew one? Cheers

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For this style I would use fairly soft water, maybe 50-75 ppm calcium from calcium chloride. I'd skip the gypsum addition because it can add a slight harshness to the bitterness, especially if using noble type hops. A slightly higher alkalinity, maybe around 35 ppm, is probably a good idea to balance the darker malts used.