using Starsan / sanitiser in hard water area

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cyderspace

cyderspace

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Hi all, I am looking for a no rinse sanitizer but I'm in a hard water area.

The PH is 7.35 according to the water people.

I would use Starsan as people rave about it, but I read this is only ok for PH of 3 or under. Hard water (or high PH) renders it ineffective.

Can anyone recommend a no rinse sanitiser suitable for hard water?

I'm thinking of using a bottle rinser with it.

thanks
cydersace
 
Whatever you read is suggesting that Starsan can only be used with vinegar. Water, at least in theory, is neutral, i.e. has a pH of 7. Obviously mineral content will cause slight fluctuations either side of this ideal, but I don't think there's any such thing as water with a pH as low as 3. That would kill most fish.
 
cyderspace said:
Hi all, I am looking for a no rinse sanitizer but I'm in a hard water area.

The PH is 7.35 according to the water people.

I would use Starsan as people rave about it, but I read this is only ok for PH of 3 or under. Hard water (or high PH) renders it ineffective.

Can anyone recommend a no rinse sanitiser suitable for hard water?

I'm thinking of using a bottle rinser with it.

thanks
cydersace
Click to expand...
My water is 6.5pH and I use it regularly.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk
 
You can tell when starsan is unhappy as it goes cloudy. I have very hard water. I distill my water I use for starsan and it always remains clear (or you could buy) there other thing I have done is treat my water with AMS etc and that helps also.
 
Gerryjo said:
My water is 6.5pH and I use it regularly.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Does the water go cloudy when you use it? I've been wondering about all this stuff because the bloke in the local homebrew shop won't stock it cos he says it's useless round here because of the hard water.

I have googled this and there are numerous threads talking about this < ph3 business.

I'll have a look at the starsan website and report back.
 
Thumper said:
Whatever you read is suggesting that Starsan can only be used with vinegar. Water, at least in theory, is neutral, i.e. has a pH of 7. Obviously mineral content will cause slight fluctuations either side of this ideal, but I don't think there's any such thing as water with a pH as low as 3. That would kill most fish.
Click to expand...

There's loads of talk about this on other sites, Thumper but I'm guessing it's not allowed to post links from other forums.

It does sound crazy when you say about fish etc. Maybe they mean it has to be under 3 AFTER you've added starsan. Would that make more sense?
 
I note people are focusing on the pH bit to justify starsan but I'd be just as happy to hear about alternatives for hard water areas.
 
Dilute it with a soft water such as Tesco Ashbeck. As long as the mix remains below pH 3 and hasn't gone cloudy it's still effective. I've never yet seen my spray bottle mixed with Ashbeck ever go cloudy over several months and you dilute it so much that it's very cheap to use.
 
I live in a very hard water area and use starsan, it goes milky as soon as it's made up with my water, I just do a litmus test every now and then to check it's viable and fine to use
 
foxbat said:
Dilute it with a soft water such as Tesco Ashbeck. As long as the mix remains below pH 3 and hasn't gone cloudy it's still effective. I've never yet seen my spray bottle mixed with Ashbeck ever go cloudy over several months and you dilute it so much that it's very cheap to use.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's great. How did you know Tesco Ashbeck was soft water? What did you look out for on the bottle?

And how do you know it's still effective?
 
Soton I'm eastleigh! So you check the mix ph and if it's under 3 it's OK to use?
 
Starsan instructions say nothing about hard water or ph, so far as I can see.

I think the answer is mix starsan with a suitable bottled water (if you know what to look for, which I don't quite yet), or get distilled water from Halford or someone.

But there must be a reliable sanitiser alternative that doesn't mind hard water?
 
cyderspace said:
Starsan instructions say nothing about hard water or ph, so far as I can see.

I think the answer is mix starsan with a suitable bottled water (if you know what to look for, which I don't quite yet), or get distilled water from Halford or someone.

But there must be a reliable sanitiser alternative that doesn't mind hard water?
Click to expand...

I think the challenge is most of the non-rinse are acid based, once outside their usable range they either become inert (if the water is to hard) or may pass on unwanted flavors (if the water is to soft/acidic).

However this is just a guess.
 
I live in a hard water area, so I use distilled water from my local hardware shop. I use ph testing strips to check the ph of the mixed starsan before use. I use a spray bottle and it lasts months/or until empty.
 
Bigjas said:
I live in a hard water area, so I use distilled water from my local hardware shop. I use ph testing strips to check the ph of the mixed starsan before use. I use a spray bottle and it lasts months/or until empty.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bigjas
 
cyderspace said:
Does the water go cloudy when you use it? I've been wondering about all this stuff because the bloke in the local homebrew shop won't stock it cos he says it's useless round here because of the hard water.

I have googled this and there are numerous threads talking about this < ph3 business.

I'll have a look at the starsan website and report back.
Click to expand...

yes but only after a while and you can use it when it's cloudy so don't listen to him.
 
While we are on the subject of starsan, what is the difference between starsan and Saniclean, surely it can't just be that saiclean is non foaming?
 
foxbat said:
Dilute it with a soft water such as Tesco Ashbeck. As long as the mix remains below pH 3 and hasn't gone cloudy it's still effective. I've never yet seen my spray bottle mixed with Ashbeck ever go cloudy over several months and you dilute it so much that it's very cheap to use.
Click to expand...

+1 the made up solution has to be be no more than ph3 to remain effective.

I used volvic - ph7 but ashbeck 6.2 is better or aqua pura at 6.1 however these are not in stock in tescos south wales a lot of the time so i'm using ada's GB4 at 6.4. Whilst I use chase spring for my liquor (water used in making beer) at 7.8 it's rubbish for use with starsan compared to alternatives.
 
cyderspace said:
Thanks, that's great. How did you know Tesco Ashbeck was soft water? What did you look out for on the bottle?
Click to expand...

A low level of carbonate hardness (alkalinity) which you can detect from the bicarbonate reading printed on the bottle. Ashbeck is very low - 25ppm. Water from hard water springs will have a bicarbonate level in the hundreds and are usually accompanied by high levels of other minerals and a high pH. It's the alkalinity that will neutralise the acid in Starsan.

And how do you know it's still effective?
Click to expand...

Cheap pH paper strips. I just dipped one in my starsan that I prepared 4 weeks ago and it's somewhere between 1 and 2. I don't need it to be any more accurate than that.
 

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