Lack of carbonation.

My first post to this forum: My Son, observing that I shared his taste in beer presented me with a complete DIY homebrew start up kit for my last birthday. To get me going he added a St Peter's IPA kit. This turned out to be the perfect choice for a first crack at brewing and four weeks later I was drinking this very drinkable IPA. Clear and hoppy and I would guess not far of 5% abv. I didn't take s.g.s on this first kit. It wasn't long before I was in 4U2Brew in Fareham looking for my next kit; something a bit hoppier and walked out with a Young's AIPA kit. I have been doing my primary fermenting in my kitchen and find the most constant temperature, typically 16 to 20C, to be on the kitchen worktop above my central heating boiler. This had worked well for the St Peters and since the weather was now gotting cooler, I made a jacket out of bubble wrap around the FV. Then I dropped my thermometer! Airlock stopped bubbling after 5 days and on day 7 I dry hopped as per the kit instructions at sg 1022. Low and behold, the fermenting kicked of again for another 4 days. I kegged the brew on day 15 at sg 1008 and moved it into by airing cupboard for 7 day and the into my shed for another three weeks. From about 5 weeks after kickoff I have been drawing off 500 ml per day into a Grolsh type bottle and let it warm up to maybe 8 c before drinking. Very nice. I have citrus and gratefruit slightly sweet on initial taste leaving me with a bitter dry after taste. Absolutely no hint of yeast taste and only lacking a bit more carbonation to be perfect. My ale is by no means flat, but it does not have the zing that the St Peters had. It is ever so slightly cloudy but, probably as expected given the amount of dry hops. It is getting clearer by the day. I put this down to my cold shed temperature, but would welcome this forums comments. I have found all of your posts on this subject most helpful so thanks for that.
:)

Welcome Hopper!.
The cold in the shed will indeed be the cause of the flat brew. My two current barrels have been ousted from the garage into the shed, and the cold spell has them almost completely flat. When it gets milder the fizz (such as it is in a barrel) will return. Glad to hear the AIPA can be good. Mine was brewed too warm (caught by the hot weather in the early summer ) and has a nasty solvent taste that won't go away. All the best with yours!
Steve

Steveddy said:

Welcome Hopper!.
The cold in the shed will indeed be the cause of the flat brew. My two current barrels have been ousted from the garage into the shed, and the cold spell has them almost completely flat. When it gets milder the fizz (such as it is in a barrel) will return. Glad to hear the AIPA can be good. Mine was brewed too warm (caught by the hot weather in the early summer ) and has a nasty solvent taste that won't go away. All the best with yours!
Steve

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Thanks for that Steve. I'm guessing that this brew will be inside me and friends before the festive season is out so I had better get started on my next. In between the St Peter's IPA and the AIPA I brewed up a Wilko IPA kit just to see how it turned out without modification. I have bottled it in 2 L PET (Tesco Lemonade bottles @ 17p ea.) This has turned out as I remember homebrew from the old days; OK but not a beer that I would pay for. You pays your money etc. I was going to try another with enhancer and some dry hopping to give it more body and taste, bitterness and aroma but have concluded that for the cost of pimping a basic kit I may as way buy a premium kit that suits my taste.
Oh!, and I will try to improve my cellar temperature. Spare room wardrobe my do the business.

Regards
Hopper
(Addicted to hops)

Hopper said:

Thanks for that Steve. I'm guessing that this brew will be inside me and friends before the festive season is out so I had better get started on my next. In between the St Peter's IPA and the AIPA I brewed up a Wilko IPA kit just to see how it turned out without modification. I have bottled it in 2 L PET (Tesco Lemonade bottles @ 17p ea.) This has turned out as I remember homebrew from the old days; OK but not a beer that I would pay for. You pays your money etc. I was going to try another with enhancer and some dry hopping to give it more body and taste, bitterness and aroma but have concluded that for the cost of pimping a basic kit I may as way buy a premium kit that suits my taste.
Oh!, and I will try to improve my cellar temperature. Spare room wardrobe my do the business.

Regards
Hopper
(Addicted to hops)

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To be fair your comparing two good two can kits to a budget one can kit.

If you had done the wilko, with say 1kg of light malt and then dropped in at least 50 grams of hops as a dry hop you might be closer. But best just to but the premium kit straight off.

sdt7618 said:

But best just to but the premium kit straight off.

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Sorry, I don't agree.
You can make perfectly good beers by boosting/pimping/tweaking a one-can kit. And they give far more scope for experimentation, which you would not necessarily want to do or feel necessary having spent upwards of £20 on a premium kit. Although you would expect them to be 'better', premium kits are far from bullet proof. In the past I have made up a Festival Landlord, a Sundew and recently a St Peters Ruby Red Ale and I was disappointed with all three to say the least, and would much prefer one of my boosted one cans to them. I'm sure many premium kits do match up to expectations, certainly the Youngs APA and AIPA did for me, but in my view you can't say they are all better than boosted one-cans for sure.

I'm with Terry! One of the best kits I made was a Wilkos 1 can golden ale, made up with 1 kilo DME, 500g dextrose and a packet of CML US Pale Ale yeast, then dry hopped with citra, Amarillo and falconer's flight blend. The Wherry and Headcracker 2 can kits were nowhere near as nice. Nor was the Bad Cat Imperial Red if I'm honest.

The Young's AIPA however won... Lol

The number of cans doesn't matter. It's what's in them, and what you do with them.

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terrym said:

Sorry, I don't agree.
You can make perfectly good beers by boosting/pimping/tweaking a one-can kit. And they give far more scope for experimentation, which you would not necessarily want to do or feel necessary having spent upwards of �£20 on a premium kit. Although you would expect them to be 'better', premium kits are far from bullet proof. In the past I have made up a Festival Landlord, a Sundew and recently a St Peters Ruby Red Ale and I was disappointed with all three to say the least, and would much prefer one of my boosted one cans to them. I'm sure many premium kits do match up to expectations, certainly the Youngs APA and AIPA did for me, but in my view you can't say they are all better than boosted one-cans for sure.

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Terry, don't think I in any way said all two cans are better, hell I was mighty disappointed with my sundew kit. But I also did give a view on how I would pimp a one can kit. Most of my lager kits have been pimped one can youngs harvest lager or pilsners, but again not all have been great, most have been decent however a few have been great. But by the time you buy the kit, 1kg of malt, hops and decent yeast( and yes the kit yeast would have worked, but not a proper lager yeast) your into the cost of two can kits which have it all included. Yes you get to personalise with pimping one cans, which I am all for.:thumb:

sdt7618 said:

Terry, don't think I in any way said all two cans are better, hell I was mighty disappointed with my sundew kit. But I also did give a view on how I would pimp a one can kit. Most of my lager kits have been pimped one can youngs harvest lager or pilsners, but again not all have been great, most have been decent however a few have been great. But by the time you buy the kit, 1kg of malt, hops and decent yeast( and yes the kit yeast would have worked, but not a proper lager yeast) your into the cost of two can kits which have it all included. Yes you get to personalise with pimping one cans, which I am all for.:thumb:

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Try Coopers kits. 1.7kg cans, yeasts that consistently work, and a good variety of beers to choose from. My go-to is the AuPA. And Coopers stouts will take some beating, I prefer the Irish. If you are a lager man the Euro lager is also good with a bit of tweaking.

terrym said:

Try Coopers kits. 1.7kg cans, yeasts that consistently work, and a good variety of beers to choose from. My go-to is the AuPA. And Coopers stouts will take some beating, I prefer the Irish. If you are a lager man the Euro lager is also good with a bit of tweaking.

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Cheer s terry, I do like the coopers lager, was my first lager kit that had fermented with a proper lager yeast. I also alway have some coopers stout stashed away somewhere, normally from the Tesco sale, but can't see that happening this year:-?.

Haven't done the Aupale, but will add it to my list of kits to do, but have a shelf full already as can't seem to pass by kits on sale, still have festival NZ pilsner, pilgrims hope and APA to do along with. Cwtch and a dead phoney kit. To much beer not enough time.

Good advice across the board here. And also good advice from the retailer (4U2Brew) who did not hesitate to point me down the AIPA road. 40 pints at 60p per pt makes sense to me.

My son is finding his way brewing ag kits which sounds a fun way to explore some very interesting ales but I'm a pensioner and my wife likes the occasional cruise so I need to watch the pennies. Full marks to P&O cruises though for introducing me to Jaipur IPA which has become my benchmark for taste, strength and aroma.
Currently supping a Jackhammer. Now that really hits the mark.
Cheers

Hi Hopper
Back to your original question about why your beer in the shed was flat, the reason is as someone else pointed out the temperature. Carbon dioxide is absorbed readily in a cold liquid that’s why people cool their beers before carbonating as the beer takes up the CO2 much easier. Like wise when the beer warms up some of the CO2 comes back out of solution and it becomes carbonated again. Hope this helps and enjoy your spoils [emoji106]


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Hopper, if you want to brew on the cheap then AG is a LOT cheaper than kits or extract, once you've bought the kit for BIAB. You pay with time and effort, rather than cash, and get nicer beer in return.

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American IPA update.
This beer tastes good. As previously mentioned, it is flat - but I have decided that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". So it is still in the shed.
The beer is strong andto my taste, not a session ale. So I have been decanting about 500 ml into my wide mouthed flip to bottle ( about £2.50 in Sainsbury's). It is a slow poor but produces a reasonable head in the bottle. There is no signs of "glump, glump" so I guess there is no oxygen getting in. I keep it in the fridge until I am ready for it in the evening. Drinking this ale cold seems to replace some of the "zing". I have now taken about half of the keg and the ale is absolutely clear in the glass. No residual in the bottom of the bottle.
I think I am in love with this ale. :)

This methodology raises a question and I hope readers will excuse any naivety from a newbie.
Question: Given that I have also brewed and successfully bottled my Wilko IPA in PET bottles, I am wondering if I could bottle from the keg after, say, a couple of weeks secondary fermentation, or even at the end of secondary fermentation. In other words, can I use the keg to settle the ale and then bottle it clear, or clearish using the tap in the keg. I am assuming that the secondary fermentation would stop on account of the residual yeast being left at the bottom of the barrel. But, would there be enough carbonisation in the decanted ale to preserve it in the bottles.
End of question.
Further feedback on the Wilko IPA in 2L PET bottles. I attended a New Year gathering of friends in Shropshire and decided to take some homebrew with me. I took 10 x 2L bottles and stored them upright in the boot of my car. Packed in so that they couldn't move. Removing them from the car carefully and storing them upright, I was pleased to note that the ale remained absolutely clear. When it came to pouring, I opened a bottle cold so had a slight fizz but no eruption. Pouring carefully into a number of glasses, I found that the residual, remained mostly in the moulded "feet" of the PET bottles.
It was not an ale to write home about, but suffice to say that it was quite pleasant and no more than 4% abv. Quite dry and quite bitter with just a touch of hoppiness. Had it not been for the slight yeasty taste, I would have been quite proud of the brew. It was certainly as clear as I could wish for.
Any suggestions on how to loose the yeasty taste in my next brew?

Best wishes and Happy New Year.

Hopper said:

This methodology raises a question and I hope readers will excuse any naivety from a newbie.
Question: Given that I have also brewed and successfully bottled my Wilko IPA in PET bottles, I am wondering if I could bottle from the keg after, say, a couple of weeks secondary fermentation, or even at the end of secondary fermentation. In other words, can I use the keg to settle the ale and then bottle it clear, or clearish using the tap in the keg. I am assuming that the secondary fermentation would stop on account of the residual yeast being left at the bottom of the barrel. But, would there be enough carbonisation in the decanted ale to preserve it in the bottles.
End of question.

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I am not sure what 'keg' you are referring to.
However, the way to clear beer going forward to PBs or bottles is achieved by
- longer periods in the FV so that the fermentation finishes, the yeast cleans up and then drops
- a few days of crash cooling/cold crashing before packaging which further encourages the yeast to drop.
Some homebrewers also rack off into a second FV after the fermentation is complete to help the clearing process, but that's a matter of preference. Many don't. I do
This will normally take upwards of two weeks for a normal beer, nearer three. The result will be clear or almost clear beer going forward, but with enough yeast to carb up, it will just take a bit longer thats all. And the outcome of this is that you end up with a dusting of yeast on the bottom of the PB or bottle after carbonation not a thick layer.
And finally the level of carbonation has nothing to do with preserving your beer. Provided you have a good sanitising regime and do your best to exclude oxygen from your beer, it will keep for many weeks and months, although different beers come good and then fall away at different rates.

Thanks again Terrym.

My"keg" is a standard 5gall pressure barrel with at tap low down and a CO2 injection fitting in the cap. All sterilised with lubricated seals.
Interim racking sounds a good plan. I will experiment with this for my next brew since time is plentiful.
Cheers

More follow up on the Wilko IPA. Since the American IPA is finished I am now polishing of the Wilko. What a difference a couple of weeks in the bottle makes! I had 10 litres left in 2L PET bottles. 4 outside in my beer locker and one in my brilliant Aldi electric coolbox. I poor the first into a pint glass but sadly let the bottle fall over and really mixing it up. The glass that I poured was gorgeous. Not strong you understand but nicely zesty and hoppy. I took a further pint from that bottle after two days lying in state. Cloudy but OK although I wouldn't give it to a friend.
Tonight, I have opened the second bottle. Again, this is gorgeous. It had been drawn in a pub I would be congratulating the Landlord and back for a second.
One point of interest; there is a slight variation in the amount of residue in the bottom of the bottles, so I am thinking that, as I have read, it is better to add the sugar for FV2 in a barrel, mix it up and then let it settle before bottling, as suggested by Terrym.

Now brewing a Youngs Hoppy and Glorious IPA for the Keg (I have a new 2 inch seal at the ready)

Cheers

As Terrym says, the path to clearer beer is quite simple. 2 wks in the first fermenter and then rack to a second fermenter (add 50g sugar) for a third week, then bottle.
The sugar addition will push out any air that stands on top of your racked beer.
The arguments around whether to rack or not have been exhausted and it is almost a matter of faith on whether to do so or not.
If you want clear - rack.
If you fear infection - don't bother.