HBC Particular Peter's Stout Clone

Well i love stout so its gonna be appreciated i am sure. Very good fermentation, glad the FV wasn't full or would of gone everywhere. Look forward to hearing how yours comes out and tasting mine. Cheers

Just bottled my first attempt at the clone. On the plus side, it's lovely on the negative it's not a clone.

Firstly it's too hoppy. Not for the style but when I tried some just before bottling I could taste the fruityness from the hop addition which I couldn't do in the original. Secondly the roasted grains aren't 'right' I'm not sure if there isn't enough of them or I've got the balance between the roasted barley and choccy wrong.

I recently received Greg Hughes' book (Thanks once again Steve :hat: ),in it is a dry stout recipe. The OG is almost the same as the PP stout at 1.048. As mentioned above I think the balance between the RB and choccy is wrong in my clone so I was going to change it from 6% RB/4% choccy to 8% RB/2% Choccy. The GH dry stout is about these percentages for the highly kilned malts too. So for my next attempt at a clone will be the reciepe from the GH book to see how it compares to the PP stout. The IBU of the GH stout is also a bit lower than my clone at 38 IBU.

As an aside, at the same time as trying to make a clone I was doing my first trial of overnight mashing. The insulation of my pot was much more effective than I expected as I mashed at 69C. For the two hours of conversion I don't think I lost much if any heat from my pot as the FG of this clone is 1.014. I don't mind as I like a rich and chewy beer

As usual I started drinking this very young. A massive 4 days conditioning and it's lovely! As I've said all along this isn't a clone of the PP stout, it's not as roasty. But it's actually what I was expecting the PP stout to taste like after I tried the sweet wort trial jar. If I manage to not drink it all before six weeks conditioning is up (I've drank virtually all my last brew, an ordinary bitter, in about two weeks, thats whay I'm starting on the stout so young) I think this stout is going to be awesome. What's your like Beercat?

Well I was meant to bottle it a few days ago but not found the time yet so fingers crossed tomorrow. Its had 2 weeks in the FV now. Will have a sample of course and i will try a bottle in a week and let you know. Glad your enjoying it. Cant wait to have a taste.

Going to be copying this once I get my equipment bill sorted.. plan on trying a cold steep aswell.. I have no reference to making a stout or ST peters so it will be what it will be

ONe perhaps silly question.. I ran out of irish moss and didn't order any with grains.. I assume its a pointless addition with a stout anyway?

Covrich said:

Going to be copying this once I get my equipment bill sorted.. plan on trying a cold steep aswell.. I have no reference to making a stout or ST peters so it will be what it will be

ONe perhaps silly question.. I ran out of irish moss and didn't order any with grains.. I assume its a pointless addition with a stout anyway?

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I think my 'clone' would be a good stout to start you out on because It's not as roasty as the PP one. The PP one I thought was quite roasty in the first few weeks of conditioning. I loved it but I thought it might be a bit much for some people, especially if this is your first stout. I think my clone is almost a cross between a stout and a porter a bit more mellow on the roastyness but leaning towards a stout. I might try less choccy and more roasted barley next time to push it more towards what I consider a stout.

You don't really need irish moss in a stout. I think you can tell if you REALLY look but I suspect that's just me. Most people wont notice if they don't know

BeerCat said:

Well I was meant to bottle it a few days ago but not found the time yet so fingers crossed tomorrow. Its had 2 weeks in the FV now. Will have a sample of course and i will try a bottle in a week and let you know. Glad your enjoying it. Cant wait to have a taste.

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I was amazed at how god it was for such a short conditioning time considering its a stout. The first bottle I tried I was only 'quality controlling' just to see how it tasted and what I could expect a few weeks down the (conditioning) line. I never expected to start drinking it with less than one weeks conditioning

Bottled up today after 2 weeks in FV and had a sneaky little taster. Seems very promising and i cant wait to try it out. OG 1050 FG 1006 so thats 5.78%. Probably should not of added the sugar but i panicked. I think your right about it being a cross between a porter and a stout as its not as black as St peters. The 2nd batch has a tin of extra dark malt in there so expecting a darker colour. I may well try your amendment with the 8% RB next.
As your a BIAB man how much water should i use for a 10batch? Seem to be getting a lower efficiency than when using clibit's stove top method. Around 60% instead of 70%.
Also please point me in the direction of a docklands porter style recipe if you have one? Be much appreciated. :)

BeerCat said:

Also please point me in the direction of a docklands porter style recipe if you have one? Be much appreciated. :)

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Are you after an all grain version of the Munton's kit? If so, not got one! What's it like?

Have you made a Fuller's London porter recipe? You can't go wrong with a porter along those lines, I have the recipe, it's fantastic, and it's easily found online.

BeerCat said:

Bottled up today after 2 weeks in FV and had a sneaky little taster. Seems very promising and i cant wait to try it out. OG 1050 FG 1006 so thats 5.78%. Probably should not of added the sugar but i panicked. I think your right about it being a cross between a porter and a stout as its not as black as St peters. The 2nd batch has a tin of extra dark malt in there so expecting a darker colour. I may well try your amendment with the 8% RB next.
As your a BIAB man how much water should i use for a 10batch? Seem to be getting a lower efficiency than when using clibit's stove top method. Around 60% instead of 70%.
Also please point me in the direction of a docklands porter style recipe if you have one? Be much appreciated. :)

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I do Maxi-Biab which is slightly different for water calculations, it's decided by the size of the pot. If your not doing one, do a a sparge as this will up your efficiency. For a 10L brewlength I'd suggest a 1L dunk sparge.
Just heat the water to 168F. After you've lifted the grain bag out of your pot put your grain bag in a bucket or something and pour the 1L in. For two mins use a wooden spoon and jab/stab the grains to get the sugars off. Then sit the grain bag in a colender on top of your bucket to drain, followed by squeezing the bag like it owes you money. Then tip the sparge runnings into the main body of the wort to boil

Muntons Docklands porter was the last kit I did and as far as I remember it was a pretty basic brown porter:Pale malt, Crystal and Choccy (If you really want to do a Docklands porter just google 'brown porter reciepe/clone and you should be able to fine one. If you can't I'll give you one) . Nice but quite one dimensional. I also recommend Fullers London Porter. I've made it a number of times. It's delicous and probably the only clone I've made that is almost exactly like the original.

The stout has come out pretty good and if only i can leave it long enough will be superbly quaffable.
Last BIAB i did i managed to get correct amount of liquid and my efficiency improved a bit from previous go. got 1052 and was aiming for 1056.
As i said i bodged up both recipes by using too much water so added 1kg of sugar to the first and a tin of malt to the second.
Will definitely be doing this again soon a i modify my burko which has started cutting out. Next time i should have a better handle on the process. :)

BeerCat said:

The stout has come out pretty good and if only i can leave it long enough will be superbly quaffable.
Last BIAB i did i managed to get correct amount of liquid and my efficiency improved a bit from previous go. got 1052 and was aiming for 1056.
As i said i bodged up both recipes by using too much water so added 1kg of sugar to the first and a tin of malt to the second.
Will definitely be doing this again soon a i modify my burko which has started cutting out. Next time i should have a better handle on the process. :)

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Mines four weeks in the bottle now and absolutely lovely. It's not as roasty as the original so it's not a clone. The next time I make it I'm going to make it less choccy and more roasted barley something like 2%/8%

(btw did you get my PM about the hop taster packs?)

After another week both have turned out to be top quality beers. Had a few yesterday and put it like this they wont last long! All home brew twang gone and devilishly moorish. I am out of flaked barley right now or would try above recipe tomorrow.
Thanks again for the hops, will be putting them all to good use soon. :drink::hat:

I've now made The Dry stout receipe from Greg Hughes book three times on the trot.

This last time I did a couple of processes different: After putting my near boiling wort in a FV to cool, once it had I then racked it of the break material into a second FV. I also pitched at high krausen for the first time (the 514 yeast is now on it's third generation).

I took a gravity sample and had a slurp of course this morning. If I remember correctly this sample tastes very similar to the PP stout clone sample, quite chocolatey. Curiously enough, even though I've used almost the same receiepe (the grain bill has been exactly the same each time but I've just be using whatever is in my freezer for hops, but the receipe only has a bittering additon so shouldn't make much difference), the other two brews tasted more roasty as this stage with little to no chocolatelyness.

Here's hoping I may have cracked it and it was the processes not just the receipe :pray:

Sounds good. What exactly is high krausen and who makes the yeast? On reflection most of mt stouts taste too roasty for me. Would cold steeping help? I just don't seem to get the same balance as the St Peters kit.

BeerCat said:

Sounds good. What exactly is high krausen and who makes the yeast? On reflection most of mt stouts taste too roasty for me. Would cold steeping help? I just don't seem to get the same balance as the St Peters kit.

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A starter is like a small batch of beer so it goes through the stages of fermentation like a beer. Similarly to a krausen on a beer fermentation, a starter will have a krausen. This is when I pitch the yeast rather than letting the starter ferment out completely and the little krausen drop.

The yeast I used is Mauribrew 514 English Ale yeast.

I've never cold steeped but I understand it to mellow out the harsher roastyness of the roasted grains. If you can stand to wait a good six weeks you'll find the roastyness will have mellowed out quite a lot. Dark beers benefit from longer conditioning times. The GH Dry stout is quite ferociously roasty early on but mellows with age

Ah so i am being impatient thanks. Ive made starters for my last 3 batches and noticed how fast they get going. Not noticed a krausen on my bottles as been shaking them vigorously. Last one nearly covered the kitchen. Will get some of that yeast.
Have noticed my last batch is much mellower now. Made a fantastic slow cooker beef stew with 2 pints of it.

BeerCat said:

get some of that yeast.

.

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I've noticed that roasty flavours seem to come out with higher attenuating yeast. Usually the 514 has an attenuation of about 80% but my lastest batch of Stout using the 514 hd an attenuation fo 75% (I think that's why it tastes more chocolaty than roasty at this stage). I think I may have under pitched a little, but it's still got a week of so in the Fv so it may reach 80% after all. If you want less roast flavours I'd recommend something like S04 which normally has an attenuation of about 75%

clibit said:

Are you after an all grain version of the Munton's kit? If so, not got one! What's it like?

Have you made a Fuller's London porter recipe? You can't go wrong with a porter along those lines, I have the recipe, it's fantastic, and it's easily found online.

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Sorry Clibit i thought i had replied to this. The Muntons is very nice. I did it twice and found it really quenching. It was maybe a bit thin but very drinkable and i would do it again.
Will look up the Fullers recipe, got so many now on my to do list.

MyCul last time i did this recipe i used GV12 and only got Nottingham, S05 and SV33 left so what do you recommend? Hopefully have some time to do a few brews this weekend. Got a starter on the go now so think i am clocking what your saying about the high krausen. It sounds like a dodgy band. :)

As i said on your other thread this beer came out really nice despite me bunging 1kg of brewers sugar into it. I panicked as it was one of my earlier brews. I am gonna have another crack at this over the weekend and pitch on my muntons yeast cake. Would the roastiness be less if i cold steeped the chocolate and barley? And what would you use for bittereing, i have Fuggles and Progress?