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Old 08-12-2017, 12:26 AM   #11
peebee
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I've also been looking into fermenting in a corny keg. Creating a "Nanny State" clone (DIYDog). But I want to take a different approach, fermenting and serving out of the same keg. Can't abide the term "cold crash", but a "spunding valve"... got to have one of them!

My intention is to set the valve at 12-15PSI and charge the keg with the wort (OG 1.006-7ish - so there shouldn't be problems with loads of yeast) plus about 250g of dry hop pellets in two 300x70mm stainless steel mesh canisters, then allow to ferment for 5-6 days. Chill ("cold crash"? Blah!), vent the pressure, remove the lid to get the dry hops out, seal and pressure back up from a cylinder. And serve a few days later (no need to warm up, add priming sugar, and allow to condition - it should already be).

Currently I worry about removing the dry hops. Am I going to be creating loads of foam when I try to take off the lid?


My spunding valve uses a SMC AP100 02, a diaphragm type pressure release valve that was going cheap(ish) on EBay. I got the impression that the commonly used "poppet" PRVs open fairly reliably but are a bit dodgy about closing again, leading to erratic pressure control?
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:25 AM   #12
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Long thread but worth reading.
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads...8#post-1492118
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liamf89 View Post
Wasn't planning to ferment it under pressure just pump bit of co2 into it when I first put wort in to purge the keg then have a disconnect on the gas in side so any gas given of during fermentation will come out there threw tube placed in some star san.. Then after ten days transfer it to clean keg.. Connect gas to the one I'm using as fv and put a tube with two black disconnects on the out on both kegs and put bit of pressure in the fv corny to get beer flowing
But at first you need oxygen in and around your wort. This helps the yeast propagate.
But it should be no problem in fact it would be a way to push out the trub and then shut off the gas in part and let finish and carb in one shot. I would then transfer to a new keg after. That would really clear it up like a brite tank. You got my curiosity going. The only real issue would be is there would be more joints and hidden areas for yeast to hide. You could get around that by pumping the hot wort, above 75 degrees, into your keg. But with that, if the seals haven’t been changed to silicon it might be an issue.
After I finish my kegs, I use oxyclean with 60 degree water the rinse well. After, I store my Starsan in the empty kegs when not in use.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:16 AM   #14
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Not true that yeast needs oxygen in the wort, brewers yeast can ferment aerobically and anaerobically, a good healthy yeast starter can be pitched into wort that has been neither oxygenated or aerated.
How about fermenting in the keg, running the gas line into the second keg, make up a spunding valve to release the pressure to whatever you set it at, (not to high ale yeast can get stressed under pressure) on the second keg, you then have a sanitized keg ready to transfer to.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:20 AM   #15
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The key word you said was “starter.” Most of the homebrewers are pitching dried packets of yeast. These need oxygen to start.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:03 AM   #16
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Even dry yeast can ferment without oxygen, dry yeast is already packed with sterols, but it would be wise to re hydrate the yeast and the ferment probably would be better if a good vigorous shake of the wort.
So don't UK home brewers use liquid yeast?
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:28 AM   #17
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I'd suggest trimming the dip tube, say 2-3cm, and keeping it as a dedicated fermentor:

- Pull clear beer from above trub with no disturbance of the yeast cake
- You'll be dumping a litre or so of trub/yeast/beer regardless, so you won't "waste less"
- Gravity samples won't be just trub (you'll want to taste these!)
- Avoid risk of blockages if you dry hop heavily

I'd also suggest switching down to 16l batches to allow for the smaller volume of the keg (which also means you get to brew more often!)

When it comes to kegging, purge and pressurise a serving keg to the exact same pressure as your FV. Move the spunding valve over to the gas-in post of the serving keg, and CO2 line to the FV's gas-in, again, at the same pressure (I usually go for about 5 psi).

Next, hook up the beer-out to beer-out line. At this point, both kegs will be in equilibrium, and no beer will flow. Slowly open the spunding valve on the serving keg until the beer starts to flow.

...and voila! Counter-pressured keg fill. Any carbonation you've built up during fermentation shouldn't foam out during transfer, and you'll need less time and gas to get up to the correct volumes once complete.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxy View Post
brewers yeast can ferment aerobically and anaerobically
True.

But there's a reason we call it the "Aerobic stage". There's no denying the presence of oxygen greatly effects this reproductive stage. More oxygen, more yeast in the later stages, better fermentation, better chance of good beer.

Quote:
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Even dry yeast can ferment without oxygen
True.

Yeast don't need oxygen...

...or temperature control...

...or sanitary practices...

...or correct pitch rate...

But are we after great beer, or pruno?
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:13 AM   #19
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Yeast produce ethanol only under anaerobic respiration. Under aerobic respiration it produces lactic acid. Quite clever really, consumes oxygen in the wort and produces lactic acid and Co2, creating an environment that bacteria can't tolerate, then is free to continue to consuming all the available sugar anaerobically. The co2 it produces also lowers the pH by forming carbolic acid.

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Old 08-12-2017, 10:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxy View Post
Thanks. Good to see others using a similar "alternative" setup for a spunding valve.

I've started a new thread on using regulators as spunding valves here: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/sh...730#post724730
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