Yeast usage

Joski · Feb 13, 2017

Hello,
I see everyone on this forum is using to little yeast (excuse my english, i am from Belgium) , when making a homebrew you got to use 1 gr a liter , o.264 gallons yeast! I hear people saying they have to wait weeks for a homebrew to get down to the fg .. i did the raja's reward ipa from bulldog kit with 2x11 gr of bry-97 yeast .. it was bottled in 14 days! .. i did also make the evilbeer dog bulldog kit with only one 11 gr yeastbag .. no foam, not getting to the final gravity... never doing this again! 2 bags of yeast and you have a great tasting beer with nice foam head and great taste like in 1.5 months ;-) , ready to drink from bottle .

Dutto · Feb 14, 2017

I disagree. Sorry.

For 23 litres I use a single 11g sachet of Wilco's Ale Yeast ...

http://www.wilko.com/homebrew-accessories+equipment/wilko-gervin-english-ale-yeast-11g/invt/0318922

... which I rehydrate in half a litre of water, with either sugar or malt extract, over a period of about five hours.

Added to the wort when it has cooled to 20-22 degrees the fermentation kicks off within a few hours.

After fermentation has started, I very seldom disturb the brew for at least two weeks and almost all of my brews have had a FG of 1.010 or less at this time.

I see no benefit whatsoever in adding more yeast in order to get a faster fermentation.

I therefore suggest that a single 11g sachet of dried yeast, rehydrated for a few hours with sugar or malt extract is perfectly adequate for most 23 litre brews. :thumb:

dan125 · Feb 14, 2017

Doesn't it depend on the OG of the beer?
When using dry yeast I tended to use 2 packs in 23L if it was above 1.050

Covrich · Feb 14, 2017

Surely it depends on what you're making and like dan says what the OG is ect.

I think it is widely accepted that most kits supply insufficient yeast and this is a result of stuck fermentations (along with lack of aeration).

As Dutto says something like Nottingham which he uses a sachet will be perfectly fine for 23L as long as the gravity isn't too high.

For liquid yeasts I personally am very pro making a starter because I think this gives a good healthy start to fermentation and causes less stress and if you're into it makes the yeast much more viable for harvesting and what not.

Personally my FG is pretty much alwasy achieved under 10 days this is depending on yeast attenuation as to what it is. I like most people here leave it in our fermenters for a minimum of 2 weeks as this helps the yeast clean up the compounds from fermentation (for those who cold crash I would leave beer in the fermantation temp for a few days after FG to aid this)

Dutto · Feb 14, 2017

Hmmm! Not too sure about this being SG dependent.

The photographs are the OG and FG of an own recipe bitter ...

... fermented with Wilco Ale Yeast ...

... for fourteen days at 21 degrees.

The OG was way higher than I normally brew (still learning AG recipes) and it it had been any higher I would have considered using a wine yeast. :lol: :lol:

Maybe the OP had a batch of yeast that just wasn't up to scratch.

PS

With this hydrometer the SG is read from the top of the meniscus. (No kidding!) :doh:

Covrich · Feb 14, 2017

Dutto said:
Hmmm! Not too sure about this being SG dependent.

The photographs are the OG and FG of an own recipe bitter ...

... fermented with Wilco Ale Yeast ...

... for fourteen days at 21 degrees.

The OG was way higher than I normally brew (still learning AG recipes) and it it had been any higher I would have considered using a wine yeast. :lol: :lol:

Maybe the OP had a batch of yeast that just wasn't up to scratch.

PS

With this hydrometer the SG is read from the top of the meniscus. (No kidding!)

You are using a very high attenuating yeast (nottingham strain) 85% is high but not unknown for that style.

Switch to a boddingtons strain for example and what not you'll see a lower attenuation and a higher gravity.

People shouldn't obsess over their gravity getting really low, in a lot of styles it is undesired. As long as the yeast ferments within its attenuation range then its good.. I have had an English IPA finish at 1016 (I was expecting 1018 from average for the yeast), leaving the body and slight sweetness behind.

Gunge · Feb 14, 2017

I love all the positive attributes of Notty/Gervin. Only downside is that it doesn't seem to know when to stop! To this end I have started mashing on the high-side, ( 68/69C, an hour tops) and now get the results I want.

MyQul · Feb 14, 2017

Dutto said:
... which I rehydrate in half a litre of water, with either sugar or malt extract, over a period of about five hours.

Only use water to re-hydrate yeast with. If you use a sugar solution the yeast get used to and adapt this and then wont ferment the more complicated sugars in wort (lazy buggers).
You've also probably heard about not just sprinkling yeast as it can lead to cell death. This happen because (iirc) the wort passes through te cell membranes too quickly and kills the cell. By making adding some malt extract to water you've made wort so will in effect be doing exactly the same as sprinkling.
From my reading on re-hydrating yeast your only supposed to use 10ml of water x Ygrams of yeast. Tbh I'm not sure why but thats what I do. Whether adding more water does anything I'm not sure

Dutto · Feb 14, 2017

I don't obsess over gravity but there are so many variables for me to screw up working out home milled, own recipe, AG brews that I have decided to stick to the one yeast for at least a year.

The one exception being this yeast ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00O8PNE5G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

... for a lager that will be left in the fridge at 10 degrees for ten weeks. :thumb:

Covrich · Feb 14, 2017

Gunge said:
I love all the positive attributes of Notty/Gervin. Only downside is that it doesn't seem to know when to stop! To this end I have started mashing on the high-side, ( 68/69C, an hour tops) and now get the results I want.

Its a good clean yeast I find it a little heavy on the hops though (seems to surpress them a bit for me compared to mj44 or us05)

Dutto · Feb 14, 2017

MyQul said:
Only use water to re-hydrate yeast with. If you use a sugar solution the yeast get used to and adapt this and then wont ferment the more complicated sugars in wort (lazy buggers).
You've also probably heard about not just sprinkling yeast as it can lead to cell death. This happen because (iirc) the wort passes through te cell membranes too quickly and kills the cell. By making adding some malt extract to water you've made wort so will in effect be doing exactly the same as sprinkling.
From my reading on re-hydrating yeast your only supposed to use 10ml of water x Ygrams of yeast. Tbh I'm not sure why but thats what I do. Whether adding more water does anything I'm not sure

I guess I kind of half do a yeast starter. :whistle:

When I use dried yeast for baking I actually do the same rehydration procedure (but without my obsession with sanitisation) and the yeast cells certainly don't die.

On one occasion I went to the shops, forgot about the dough proving at home and returned to find that it had overflowed the bowl; luckily on to a kitchen work-top. :doh:

I've also not had any problems with the yeast kicking off when it has been introduced to the wort.

By the time I have finished a brew and pitched the yeast I'm pretty knackered and go into the house for a well earned beer ...

... and the next morning the musical "Glub - glub" of the airlock has always been there to greet me when I enter the garage!

Maybe the Wilco yeast is a lot tougher than many other strains. :thumb:

PS

The one exception to the yeast kicking off overnight was a gluten free brew that just refused to start! If memory serves me right, it finally kicked off after I sprinkled a packet of dry yeast in there!

Grizzly299 · Feb 14, 2017

As others have said, a single 11g sachet will do the job 9/10 times, if the wort is around 1.050 or below. For a lager, double that.

It all depends on how many viable yeast cells are in your sachet of yeast.

Most manufacurers only guarantee around 5x10^9 cells per gram as standard.

Brewers friend yeast calculator suggests an underpitch by 104
Billion cells if pitching into 1.050 wort, and that is with a viable yeast count of 10x10^9.

The underpitching is undeniable, but just what effect is it having on your beer?

Joski · Feb 15, 2017

Thnx guys! Learned a lot more about yeast , i thought it was just normal to follow the instructions .. i am now making the bad cat from bulldog kits .. usually i add 2 bags of yeast but most people do tell me 1 bag is enough i added the bag of 10 gr that came with thethe kit (2nd mistake) , it's a 7.5% abv one (standard) .. can i put another one extra in there like within the next 2 hours or so? :-\

Joski · Feb 15, 2017

Have added some things extra in there and sg is 1070 .. that's why i ask can i put another yeast bag in, just done this brew ...

Dutto · Feb 16, 2017

Joski said:
Have added some things extra in there and sg is 1070 .. that's why i ask can i put another yeast bag in, just done this brew ...

You can put another sachet in there ...

... but if the first sachet is alive there is probably no real reason to do so.

Personally, I would wait and if there is absolutely no sign of life after 48 hours I would add the second sachet; after rehydrating the yeast.

Joski · Feb 16, 2017

Dutto said:
You can put another sachet in there ...

... but if the first sachet is alive there is probably no real reason to do so.

Personally, I would wait and if there is absolutely no sign of life after 48 hours I would add the second sachet; after rehydrating the yeast.

Ok thnx, i did add a 2nd bag to it, the also awfull smelling bry-97 :-D .. hope the off smell goes away.. my raja's reward Ipa has been bottled for 14 days, tested one yesterday and smells awfull but taste is quite nice .. hopely it goes away that smell :-\

Joski · Feb 16, 2017

Joski said:
Ok thnx, i did add a 2nd bag to it, the also awfull smelling bry-97 :-D .. hope the off smell goes away.. my raja's reward Ipa has been bottled for 14 days, tested one yesterday and smells awfull but taste is quite nice .. hopely it goes away that smell :-\

I also used the bry-97 yeast for the raja's ipa .. but inot think being a rather low alcohol and gravity one the 2 bags of 11 gr were to much ..

johnnyboy1965 · Feb 16, 2017

JMHO...Its more about "proving" the yeast than making a starter culture.
If yeast manufacturors (sp) state that 1 packet (11g) or 1 vial of liquid yeast is enough to brew 23li, then we have to take there word for it. Why would they not state otherwise?/ supply 15g of dried yeast, or larger vials?
I cant be down to cost

johnnyboy1965 · Feb 16, 2017

That might have come across wrong.
All the suppliers of yeast WhiteLabs/Fermentis/etc supply enough yeast to brew 23li. They have spent thousands of ÃÂ£ developing their product. But some HBers think that they know better. Discuss

Covrich · Feb 16, 2017

johnnyboy1965 said:
That might have come across wrong.
All the suppliers of yeast WhiteLabs/Fermentis/etc supply enough yeast to brew 23li. They have spent thousands of Ã¯Â¿Â½ÃÂ£ developing their product. But some HBers think that they know better. Discuss

I think with liquid yeast its viability can deteriorate quickly thats why a lot of people make starters.. Especially since for us at least its shipped half way around the world..

Dumping a vial in in a lot of cases may well be fine, in a lot of cases though we are quite likely to be under pitching, did it once and it was sluggish..

Now since I brew outside I am more concerned about exposure so if I have a starter its going healthily within a few hours..

For a mitigating risk factor and a healthy start I see it as something I personally advocate.

Yeast usage

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