1st Brew, 1st mistake, advice needed quick!

BruinTuns said:

Thanks Covrich. I really didn't think we had to be quite so careful about aeration. I've read so many posts where lads talk about 'racking to secondary' (and sometimes even again to tertiary), and I assumed that this would aerate at least as much as careful jug transfer.
But is it really a bad idea to bottle directly from the fv tap? (Yes, I'm bottling not kegging). I always thought that 'syphon vs fv tap' bottling preference was pretty much a 50/50 split. Or do you mean that I should avoid with this particular batch because it may already be slightly oxidised?

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There's only one point at which you want to be actively introducing oxygen to your beer and that is right before pitching the yeast to aerate the wort so the yeast has oxygen to reproduce it's cells. Any other times and as others have said your in serious danger of oxidizing your beer.

1. Use a syphon to rack or transfer to keg. It can take a bit of practice to syphon quickly and without mess. There are youtube vids on how to syphon beer properly
2. Use a little bottler to bottle with

Both of the above transfer your beer from one vessel to another gently and without risking oxidizing your beer

BruinTuns we are both very much in the same sinking boat without a paddle!

I got on with bottling last night (only about a third of the batch though as I quickly got tired of stripping labels off bottles!)

I cleaned then sterilised the bottles however then rinsed with cold tap water - which I now read is a bad thing?

When bottling, the beer was really flowing....slightly sticky kitchen floor this morning! The majority of the bottles had a small foam head on them half way up the neck - I now read aeration is also bad.

Finally, I poured boiling water over my caps which may have damaged the seal.

On the plus side, I had a cheeky glass and it wasnt half bad for a warm, flat beer!

Thirtsy_Greg said:

BruinTuns we are both very much in the same sinking boat without a paddle!

I got on with bottling last night (only about a third of the batch though as I quickly got tired of stripping labels off bottles!)

I cleaned then sterilised the bottles however then rinsed with cold tap water - which I now read is a bad thing?

When bottling, the beer was really flowing....slightly sticky kitchen floor this morning! The majority of the bottles had a small foam head on them half way up the neck - I now read aeration is also bad.

Finally, I poured boiling water over my caps which may have damaged the seal.

On the plus side, I had a cheeky glass and it wasn't half bad for a warm, flat beer!

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I may be misunderstanding here but if it is Steralising then yes you'll need to rinse them down.. No rinse sanitser on the other hand you pour out and drain off and put beer straight into things.

What method did you use to bottle exactly? Trick is to try and get the beer to fill from the bottom of wherever you're transferring it to, whether that be another bucket/ carboy or a keg or bottle.

"..only about a third of the batch though as I quickly got tired of stripping labels off bottles!"

Thirsty_Greg, I hear that! I used to diligently soak-scrape the labels off after every 'session' but I'm afraid I lapsed after abot 60-70 bottles and I now have about the same number still labelled. Tbh I'm very tempted to just leave them on. After all, it can't affect the taste of the beer! :
As for rinsing with tap water, I wouldn't worry. I've read nothing to suggest that it will do any harm and I'll be doing it that way myself when the time comes.
For sanitising, I've just been using very dilute household bleach (the thin, cheap stuff) and vinegar, at the rate of approximately 3ml of each per litre of water, followed by two or three thorough rinsings in tap water. Tthe vinegar is supposed to help remove any bleachy smell afterwards. IMPORTANT: don't mix bleach and vinegar until one of them is well diluted, mixed neat is apparently a recipe for chlorine gas!
Yes, we're both blundering a bit, aren't we? Still, at least we're learning from our mistakes and (hopefully!) won't make the same ones again..
The annoying thing is that I did so much prep reading before I started, including several books by respected experts, and none of these issues were ever mentioned anywhere..

Covrich, that bottler stick sounds brilliant. After your warning (thanks) I was going to buy a short length of wide bore syphon tubing and push it onto the spigot and control the flow with the tap but if you can remember where you bought that wonderful sounding gadget I'll gladly snap one up. Does it fit more than one size (bore) of tap? I have three and they're all slightly different.
Most of the bottling aids I've seen seem to average about a tenner with postage. Not a fortune but I'd prefer to avoid the extra outlay at the moment if possible..
Btw, do you know if oxidation is as big an issue with ginger beer? I've 20l of 'rickthebrew's' recipe on the go and all the ginger pulp is floating on top. I'd love to stir it through to add to the flavour but don't want to risk it without more knowledgable approval. I askd the question in the relevant thread but no one's been there for a while.

leave the g/beer alone, the co2 from the fermentation will be sitting above the beer in the bucket after pushing out all the air, but if you pull the lid to look/stir the co2 can easily be blown.disturbed off. next time weigh down floating additions in a net bag with a marble or similar neutral dead weight.

draining from a tap is great, BUT be mindful of the beer level, as soon as it hits the entry to the tap the protective co2 blanket sat above will be sucked thru in no time and expose all the remaining beer to air/O2..
so careful tipping and wedging not to disturb the sediment and keeping the tap entry covered with liquid is a skill to aquire.

not all the co2 generated by the yeasts activity is released as bubbles, some remains absorbed in the liquid, agitation of the liquid through a siphon tube is enough to shake some of the co2 out of suspension, which is great for us as we can use this to protect the beer during transfer into a 2ndary fv a bottling bucket, kegs and bottles

hopefully your gentle jugging across benefitied from disturbed our co2 protection:) next time tho a siphon or drain tube into the 2nd bucket bottom would be a safer bet.


the simple rule is o2 before the yeast kick off is VERY good, god for yeast population growth .. but once the yeast have started munching O2 is VERY bad...

"I think we all make mistakes when we start, although you do seem to be on a mission to make as many as possible."

Just think though, when you eventually pour yourself your first glass of beer and find that it ain't half bad, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Basic rules:
1. sanitise your equipment.
2. mix up kit as per instructions
3. leave the damn thing alone!
4. when it's finished fermenting, leave it alone a bit longer so you know damn well it's really finished and to allow it to clear a bit.
5. bottle into sanitised bottles as per kit instructions
6. leave them alone for a couple of weeks, then drink them.

That's all there is to kit brewing. The only thing to avoid is getting bugs in there. So sanitise and leave it alone because everytime you muck it about you risk getting bacteria in there.
Oh yes, and personally I have a taste of the brew at every stage. After mixing the kit, whilst bottling. That way you'll know it's going ok.

Fil and CWRW666, thank you both. Genuinely useful info and advice. :hat:
I promise I'm paying attention..

Sorry forgot to reply incase you wondered

http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Brewferm-Bottle-Filler.html#.VG4PMzSAORw

Fits most tubing and taps

Thanks Covrich. Will add one to my next order.

Quick edit::
In post 32 I linked to a bottle capper but this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Crown-Capper-For-26mm-Bottle-Cap-Metal-Twin-Lever-Home-Brew-Beer-HIGH-QUALITY-/390936562888
linked in this thread:
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=463521&highlight=bottle+capper#post463521
looks to be a better product..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Crown-Cap...ver-Home-Brew-Beer-HIGH-QUALITY-/390936562888

Ok quick update. Exactly two weeks since starting and hydrometer reads 1014.
Even if fermentation stpped there that would still give ABV 6% but it's still bubbling away. And this despite over-diluting.
The next issue is deciding when to add the hops. Don't want to jump the gun so I'll leave it at least a few more days.

Sounds like its still going well then! I would be as patient as you can and only put the hop bags in a few days before you plan to bottle/keg.

I bottled mine Tues/Wed last week, although it did have good aroma, I would have preferred stronger and I think hopping too early was the mistake - I have read it could have been forced out of the airlock as the beer was still fermenting

A week in however and the clear plastic 'tester' bottle is starting to feel firm although far from being solid, I have read secondary fermentation is minimum of 3 weeks which is longer than the (basic) kit instructions state. No explosions as yet which is surprising as I put sugar in each bottle, I only read about mixing a priming solution after the event (again, no mention of this method in the instructions)

Good luck

Hey Greg
Putting sugar directly into the bottles is fine as long as you don't overdo it. A slightly rounded teaspoonful per 500ml bottle seems the accepted standard, although some beer styles will require slightly more or less.
The 'priming solution' is just what the veterans prefer because it's less tedious and means that each bottle will have the exact same amount of sugar as all the others.
What is this 'tester bottle'? I'm intrigued.. I'm guessing it's just a plastic squeezable bottle that lets you know carbonation is going ok? Is it a specific product that you bought for the purpose, or will any plastic bottle do?

I think I would have preferred mixing the solution rather than sugar in bottles, still, will know for next time!

All my bottles are brown 330mls so just sterilised a small clear water bottle as an extra. Helps to judge carbonation and also I can see how the beer is clearing although as I had the brew in the primary for over 3 weeks I think it is pretty clear already!

Turned the heating on in the flat for the first time the other day and left the bottles wrapped up by the radiator, seems to have helped - my tester bottle is almost solid.

Further update: Just taken another FG reading and it's down to 1002. That's a drop of a further 0.012 in three days, estimated abv now 7.3%. Yippee and all that :drunk:
but can it be right? Double checked, it seems to be. And it's still bubbling away..
This Evil Dog is indeed a very strong kit..

Finally added the hop teabags this morning, a full two weeks later than the instructions suggest. It's 21 days exactly since I started this kit and it's still showing signs of activity, albeit now very subdued. I didn't bother taking a reading today, but it must be nearly done now.
I've no previous experience of 'hopping' but the hop tea smelled very strong, so hope I've not overdone it. I'll leave it 2-3 days and bottle in 2 or 3 days.
Wish I knew whether this is the point at which I should 'rack to secondary' but no matter how I phrase that question I can't get a straight answer from google..

This was my first brew a few months ago. Now supping well nearly supped. I would recommend its a bit special!!

BruinTuns said:

Wish I knew whether this is the point at which I should 'rack to secondary' but no matter how I phrase that question I can't get a straight answer from google..

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Your googling of racking to secondary, are you trying to find out when to do it or whether you should do it at all, as all the contradictory info is about whether you should do it or not, not when you should do It (I've found)

MyQul said:

Your googling of racking to secondary, are you trying to find out when to do it or whether you should do it at all, as all the contradictory info is about whether you should do it or not, not when you should do It (I've found)

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Both when to and if to!
Have you read that - assuming one is going to do it - that it should be after fermentation has finished in the pfv, and that it's done mainly to facillitate batch priming?

BruinTuns said:

Both when to and if to!
Have you read that - assuming one is going to do it - that it should be after fermentation has finished in the pfv, and that it's done mainly to facillitate batch priming?

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As far a my googling has gone, I agree just do it after fermentation in the primary has stopped as to why - lots of reasons. You can batch prime in the primary - I used to. Carefully pour you priming solution in to the primary and VERY carefully stir so as not to disturb the trub at the bottom.

racking off into a 2ndary FV is intended for aiding clarity, and removing off the yeastbed if lagering for a period. it was very popular with many US 'craft' brewers, but now afaik is loosing favour as more and more realise it is an opportunity for errors in hygiene to negativly impact the brew.

each time you 'interfere' with a brew you do increase the odds of something bad getting in, be it oxygen or an unwanted micro organism.

using a bottling bucket to distribute a disolved priming charge isnt the same thing as the beer isnt (as a rule) in the bucket long enough for any further sediment drop.

you can add you hop tea etc into the primary fermentor without any problems.

the problems associated with leaving beer on a yeastbed for a considerable time (months) are generally due to yeast turning canabalistic ?autolysis? which can impart flavors we dont want, But its a very rare problem and you need to keep the beer on the yeast for a LONG time.

afaik the common wisdom currently suggests a 2ndary FV isnt worth the risk however small, but at the end of the day its your brew so your choice.