1st Brew, 1st mistake, advice needed quick!

BruinTuns · Nov 11, 2014

Hi Lads
I Finally got my first brew on this afternoon, the Bulldog 'Evil Dog Double IPA' kit.
Thought I'd been clever buying used fermenting buckets cheap on the auction site but realized too late why they were so cheap.
I did everything by the HBF book, especially sterilization, but....
The "25 litre" buckets (they're factory marked as such) don't even hold 21 litres! Must be measured at USA volumes, which I only just now found out are less than UK.
The kit instructions call for 23 L H20, (several HBF members actually brew this one long; 24 litres is common) but with only 20L added my FV is brimmed. The wort almost touches the lid, and the bottom of the bubbler is almost in the soup, even though it's only just through the grommet.
Oddly, even at this unplanned concentration, my OG was only @ 160 - it was difficult to be precise due to froth. Other members typically report higher OGs..
My question:
Should I go stick with this situation? Is it too late to split it (and dilute a bit) between this and a second fv? No bubbler activity as yet..

Any advice greatly appreciated..

Cheers

Simon

Fil · Nov 11, 2014

i would leave as is.. and get a new bucket for future brews..
will keep my fingers crossed for ya too, you may find the brew trying to escape with such little headroom, so sit it where u can clean up easily, Not on carpet

if it does explode out dont fret just wipe up the mess , consider replacing the airlock with a blow off tube or just leave off taping over the hole and not sealing the lid. leave the lid on regardless and just clean up any mess that escapes wiping off with a weak bleach solution is ok as long as NONE gets inside ...

and leave the lid on, if you need to see inside crack the lid and peek in from the side

standing over an open brew scratching your head is a formula for infection

enjoy the beer

Covrich · Nov 11, 2014

Fil said:
i would leave as is.. and get a new bucket for future brews..
will keep my fingers crossed for ya too, you may find the brew trying to escape with such little headroom, so sit it where u can clean up easily, Not on carpet

if it does explode out dont fret just wipe up the mess , consider replacing the airlock with a blow off tube or just leave off taping over the hole and not sealing the lid. leave the lid on regardless and just clean up any mess that escapes wiping off with a weak bleach solution is ok as long as NONE gets inside ...

and leave the lid on, if you need to see inside crack the lid and peek in from the side standing over an open brew scratching your head is a formula for infection

enjoy the beer

Not sure he will need to open it to see it after a day or so, I think it might be coming out to greet him :rofl:

Just kidding the above is good advice, just go for it and well expect to clean up the krausen (foamy head) which will certainly likely escape if you have that little head room.

Just remember to clean and sterlise everything that comes into contact and of course since its your first brew relax (easier said than done)

You should have a nice strong brew at the end : cheers:

Cwrw666 · Nov 11, 2014

A litre is a litre anywhere in the world, but US gallons are smaller than UK gallons. Fermenting bins usually have the volume marked in a scale on the side but these are a guide only. How do you know how many litres it is anyway? - you're assuming that whatever you measured it with was remotely accurate as well! Anything made of plastic is highly unlikely to be accurate.:lol:
So nothing to stop you using this FV again, just leave a bit more headroom. Many homebrewers `brew short' anyway as it improves the flavour.

BruinTuns · Nov 11, 2014

Thanks all
The fv is actually a proper Boots home brew bucket so I'm a bit disappointed. Thinking about it yes, it probably does hold exactly 5 gallons if filled to the absolute brim but that's obviously no good for brewing that amount.
I've just realised why there's so little space; even with only 21 litres in there; the 4.7 kg of liquid extract! According to this malt extract converter
http://convert-to.com/576/malt-extract-conversion-plus-nutritional-facts.html
one litre of malt extract weighs a fraction under 3 lbs. so Evil Dog's big bag is over 3 litres volume! :doh:

Once I have a bit more experience I'm going to start a thread titled "Common Newbie Mistakes To Avoid"!
Oh, and the reason I'm sure about the exact amount is because I used 2L bottles of Everyday Value mineral water. I realized I'd need more empties to botttle rickthebrew's fiery ginger beer recipe and at 17 p each it seemed daft not to.
So yes, now on the lookout for 33l buckets. Is an airtight lid essential? Found these which are quite a bit cheaper than most..
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/33_ltr_Fermenting_Bin_Lid.html#.VGIUpWfX_Fw

BruinTuns · Nov 11, 2014

P.S..
There's no activity yet but as soon as any krausen forms it will surely push out. I trust you guys but I'd be a lot happier with even a few inches of head space. If I was careful about sanitation could I dip out a couple of jugs and transfer them to a 5 litre mineral water bottle?

JAK · Nov 11, 2014

Hey,

I'd be a little worried not having any headroom in my FV, apart from the fact that when your yeasts get going your going to have a lot of cleaning up to do... but also ale yeast are top fermenters, opposed to lager yeast which ferment from the bottom. If you have no headroom your going to lose a lot of your yeast in the krausen blow off. You'll obviously not lose them all, but it'd be like pitching at a low rate.

I'd be tempted to sterilise another bucket, give it a good stir and transfer enough over to give you enough headroom for your krausen to rise and fall.

Let us know how it goes!

BruinTuns · Nov 11, 2014

Hi JAK
I agree and am right now sterilising a 2nd bucket and lid. I wasn't sure if any interference at this stage might be bad for the process.
I didn't mention in the OP that I'm so short of space in my tiny flat that the only convenient place for my fvs is the bedrrom floor (carpeted!) so gooey overspill would be a nightmare to clean up.
Also doing this will allow me to ttop up with the remaining water to 24 litres (2 .5 extra litres of beer is reason enough on its own :drink:)
I want to get another brew on asap so guess I'll repeat the two fv method with my two other buckets, one of which doesn't have a snap down lid. It's similar to the one that I linked to at The Homebrew Shop.
Is an airtight lid important?

gerbs · Nov 11, 2014

Is an airtight lid important?

No some people just put a damp tea towel over the FV in fact the new coopers Fv has a removable krausen collar and the lid does not lock down.

brewpirate · Nov 11, 2014

What kind of airlock do you have? I would attach a hose into into a jar/bucket of sanitizer like the image below.

Robert_ · Nov 11, 2014

I think everybody has missed the point here. You say you "added 20l" - I take it you mean you've added this amount of water to the kit contents?

When it says to top up to 23l that includes the wort - it doesn't mean to add 23l of water ontop of the kit contents.

Robert_ · Nov 11, 2014

BruinTuns said:
The kit instructions call for 23 L H20, (several HBF members actually brew this one long; 24 litres is common) but with only 20L added my FV is brimmed. The wort almost touches the lid, and the bottom of the bubbler is almost in the soup, even though it's only just through the grommet.
Oddly, even at this unplanned concentration, my OG was only @ 160

See above mate.

Your SG is spot on if, as I assume, you have got an FV that holds approximately 24l and you've topped it right up.

BruinTuns · Nov 11, 2014

My first brew and oh boy have I cocked it up :sick:
Robert, I see! All this time I've been assuming that the 23l refers to the water addition! Man I feel stupid now, especially after all the reading and research I did.
The instructions even say ...top up your fermenter to 23l...
It's now divided between two fvs, total of 24l water added. What a plonker...
Still no activity, is it too late to add a kilo (or 500g?) of dextrose to shunt the ABV back up a bit? I reaally want this to be a strong Christmas brew.

brewpirate, the airlock is one of these
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Bubbler_Airlock.html#.VGJG_WfX_Fw

gerbs: Ah, so a n airlock can't be essentilal either? In that case I might order a couple of The Homebrew Shop 33l fermenters.
I'm guessing that's the size most experienced home brewers use?

Thanks for the replies so far.

Slid · Nov 11, 2014

gerbs said:
Is an airtight lid important?

No some people just put a damp tea towel over the FV in fact the new coopers Fv has a removable krausen collar and the lid does not lock down.

The Coopers lid sort of locks down with two plastic clips that I lost ages ago, mainly because they have no functionality whatsoever.

As long as you take the krausen collar out whilst it is still fermenting, there is just no need for a tight fit in a primary FV.

baggybill · Nov 11, 2014

Some people 'stretch' two can kits by adding more water/dme/dextrose. Not something I've tried or hence, could recommend.

I'm a bit more worried about the 'no sign of activity...' line in your post. What temp is your brew(s) at and what temp did you pitch the yeast at?

Robert_ · Nov 12, 2014

BruinTuns said:
My first brew and oh boy have I cocked it up :sick:
Robert, I see! All this time I've been assuming that the 23l refers to the water addition! Man I feel stupid now, especially after all the reading and research I did.
The instructions even say ...top up your fermenter to 23l...
It's now divided between two fvs, total of 24l water added. What a plonker...
Still no activity, is it too late to add a kilo (or 500g?) of dextrose to shunt the ABV back up a bit? I reaally want this to be a strong Christmas brew.

brewpirate, the airlock is one of these
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Bubbler_Airlock.html#.VGJG_WfX_Fw

gerbs: Ah, so a n airlock can't be essentilal either? In that case I might order a couple of The Homebrew Shop 33l fermenters.
I'm guessing that's the size most experienced home brewers use?

Thanks for the replies so far.

This kit gets right down to 1004 in my experience - so you will be at 7.5% with priming sugar anyway. Probably best to leave it be. Of all the kits to over-water you picked the best one. All is far from lost :)

Covrich · Nov 12, 2014

BruinTuns said:
My first brew and oh boy have I cocked it up :sick:
Robert, I see! All this time I've been assuming that the 23l refers to the water addition! Man I feel stupid now, especially after all the reading and research I did.
The instructions even say ...top up your fermenter to 23l...
It's now divided between two fvs, total of 24l water added. What a plonker...
Still no activity, is it too late to add a kilo (or 500g?) of dextrose to shunt the ABV back up a bit? I reaally want this to be a strong Christmas brew.

brewpirate, the airlock is one of these
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Bubbler_Airlock.html#.VGJG_WfX_Fw

gerbs: Ah, so a n airlock can't be essentilal either? In that case I might order a couple of The Homebrew Shop 33l fermenters.
I'm guessing that's the size most experienced home brewers use?

Thanks for the replies so far.

I must admit I use 25 litre fermenting buckets and never had an issue. Whilst I sometimes brew at 23l, I tend to brew at 19-22

BruinTuns · Nov 12, 2014

Robert,, I'll take your advice and leave the fermantables as they are. There's now a bigger concern which is...

baggybill, yes I agree. Didn't want to make too much of it as I've read so many posts from newbies worried about the lack of activity but it's now been nearly 48 hours and no sign of anything happening.
I re-hydrated at just under 70 degrees F and made sure the wort was about the same by topping up with hot water from the kettle before pitching. Not very scientific but I'm pretty sure nothing was drastically off
It's odd because late last night, about 30 hours afer pitching, I put my ear close to both buckets and there was a very soft but definite hiss of escaping CO2 so I went to sleep somewhat relieved.
However this morning both fvs were completely silent and still are.

Grateful for any further advice and thanks to all who've replied.
.

JAK · Nov 12, 2014

BruinTuns said:
Robert,, I'll take your advice and leave the fermantables as they are. There's now a bigger concern which is...

baggybill, yes I agree. Didn't want to make too much of it as I've read so many posts from newbies worried about the lack of activity but it's now been nearly 48 hours and no sign of anything happening.
I re-hydrated at just under 70 degrees F and made sure the wort was about the same by topping up with hot water from the kettle before pitching. Not very scientific but I'm pretty sure nothing was drastically off
It's odd because late last night, about 30 hours afer pitching, I put my ear close to both buckets and there was a very soft but definite hiss of escaping CO2 so I went to sleep somewhat relieved.
However this morning both fvs were completely silent and still are.

Grateful for any further advice and thanks to all who've replied.
.

What do you mean by rehydrate? What did you rehydrate and when?

The hiss of CO2 is a good sign, you'd be able to smell it too and know your fermentation was underway. I wouldn't worry about losing the hiss if your sure you had CO2 being pushed out last night. Your fermentation may have just created too much pressure for your lid to handle and popped it open a little more than how you first had it. More room for your CO2 to escape = no noise being made.

Even with an airlock this happens, its quite hard to make it completely air tight at pressure.

Give it another day and hopefully you'll see signs of a krausen - which would be scummy marks higher up your FV than your wort was added too.

If you see no signs of this, take a more scientific approach to judging your fermentation. Take a hydrometer reading and compare it to your OG, taking into consideration any temperature fluctuations.

Covrich · Nov 12, 2014

do you see any sign of fermenting like foam or even a small head appearing?

Did you give it a good old stir before you pitched so it was nice a bubbly? I assume it is still at around the same temp.

1st Brew, 1st mistake, advice needed quick!

Help Support The Homebrew Forum:

Landlord.

Landlord.

Geek

Landlord.

Landlord.

Landlord.

Well-Known Member

Landlord.

Junior Member

Regular.

Active Member

Active Member

Landlord.

Forum Friend

Always learning...

Active Member

Geek

Landlord.

Well-Known Member

Geek

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!