calculations and effieciecy ect

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Covrich

Covrich

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Might be a bit of an over thought question but yesterday I did my 2nd partial mash.

I had a recipe which I put into brewmate which to be honest I just left at around 23 liters.

Now as I say it is a partial mash and I started off with probably 13.5 liters to boil (estimate tbf), I obviously lost some from the boil off and cooldown..

However with this brew I decided to chuck iun the hop pellets loose and not bag them..

I dont know whether it was just hop debris and or break material but straining the cooled down wort seemed to take ages and my strainer constantly filled (which I kept dumping into a large bowl)

Anyway in the fermenter was probably only just under 10 liters, I think I lost some to the gunk to be honest and hop asorbtion.

So to my question, should I try to accomodate this loss within something like brewmate so for example try to up the amount of water to say 24 liters ?

Sorry for the verbose and stupid question, I know brewmate has calculators butI probably just dont understand how to use it properly.

Thanks in advanced for any help advice..
 
Click on Brewday and on the right hand side you can enter various water losses. You need to estimate how much was evaporation and how much was lost to trub. 3.5 litres lost to these out of 13.5 sounds normal to me.
 
THanks, I saw that but coulnd't really get it to work for a partial mash too well.

I think to be honest I am maxing out my kettle a bit

Not sure I am going to bother with DME and just stick to grains , perhaps do a few smaller AG batches before upscaling makes it much more straight forward.

Thanks again
 
I make 10L batches with around 12 litres at the start of the boil. As MyQul does, you can always boil a bit of extra wort in a separate pan and top up the main boil with it as the level drops. Or top up to 10L in the FV with cold water. To make a 20L or so partial mash from this, just adjust the hops and non-base grains for the brew length, add your extract after the boil and add to water in the FV.
 
If your maxing out your kettle, as Clibit mentions, you might want to,at least temporarily until you get a bigger kettle, take the route I have - maxi-biab.

I make a concentated wort of about 17L (in my 20L pot) and dilute this down to 23L in my FV. Although today my effeciency/sparging was a bit mental and I got 25.1L (although being too effecient can have it's own attendant problems like tannin extraction/astringency)

I do two sparges and put the runnings in a seperate pot to boil. As the main pot boils off I gradually add the runnings
 
Thanks for teh advice.

My pot is only 15 liters so I am a bit restricted either way. My plan is to make some kind of upgrade anyway this summer just not sure what too.

I am wondering whether my disaapointing efficiencies could also be caused by the pre crushed grain.. I mean it looks crushed but I hear finer is better suited for BIAB.

I might invest in a cranked miller myself or I am sure somone said on here malt millers will give a finer biab crush if you ask..
 
I not clear on what your saying when you talk about disapointing efficiencies as from your OP your talking about water calculations?

Are you having problems with efficiency (amount of sugars washed from the grain) as well as problems with water calculations?

If it efficiency (as I have descibed above) there are a couple of things you can do. My first BIAB had an efficiency of about 62% my efficiency on todays brew was 84%.

The biggest thing I found that helped is giving youu mash a good stir mash. If you do 60min, stir at 30min and just before pulling your bag (out). If you do 90 min stir at 30min, 60min and just before pulling you bag. I mash for 40 mins so I stir at 20min and just before pulling the bag

btw with a 15L pot you could probably do an 18L brew length with maxi biab
 
I buy whole malt and mill it myself. My efficiency has increased since I started milling it twice, with my hand cranked cheap mill. Got 80% last time, in a 15L pot with a bag. 10L brew.
 
This is all very interesting for me. I only started using fresh grains this year and have already been very pleased by the results.

I am basically using a kit, plus base malt instead of DME, mashed with speciality malts and then boiled for 30 mins with flavour / aroma hops. Have used 1 can Coopers kits, with 500g DME and 2 can kits from the last Wilko sale.

Am gradually using more actual grain, as confidence grows in the new methodology. Started with 1.5kg, using a 15L pot and will move up to 2.5kg next time. This will be a "half and half" approach to an AG and extract version from the Greg Hughes book.

Have invariably been slightly surprised by how little actual wort a huge looking mash gives you!

I really should write up the brews done using grains - steeps and mashes -done to date, because they are just that bit better than the kits.
 
You should drop the kits and make half size AG batches! Try one. And/or do a partial mash with DME instead of the kit.
 
MyQul said:
I not clear on what your saying when you talk about disapointing efficiencies as from your OP your talking about water calculations?

Are you having problems with efficiency (amount of sugars washed from the grain) as well as problems with water calculations?

If it efficiency (as I have descibed above) there are a couple of things you can do. My first BIAB had an efficiency of about 62% my efficiency on todays brew was 84%.

The biggest thing I found that helped is giving youu mash a good stir mash. If you do 60min, stir at 30min and just before pulling your bag (out). If you do 90 min stir at 30min, 60min and just before pulling you bag. I mash for 40 mins so I stir at 20min and just before pulling the bag

btw with a 15L pot you could probably do an 18L brew length with maxi biab
Click to expand...

Yes I think my question does come down to efficiency.. both I done so far appear to be around 60%, I was just thinking with losing a litre or so to hop debris whether or not you incorporate this in..

Both were partial mashes though..

I do plan to go all grain but what I think I will do is try out a couple of smaller batches of all grain.

I actually got lucky my last supply batch geterbrweed seemed to give me loads extra grain pretty much enough for a 1 gallon brew so I just need to yeast as I have some hops. Ill try giving these grains a little extra crush with a rolling pin.

Cheers all again..
 
Also did you sparge? This can help too. Even if you just get 500ml (heat to 168F) and pour it over the grains through a colander can increase your efficiency.

The other biggie I have recenty discovered is doing an extra long lauter. After you pull your bag (and after your sparge if you do one) get a pot or bucket and put your colender in the bottom then put the bag with the grains in it into the pot and leave it there. Leave it to lauter right up to about ten minutes till the end of the boil. Every so often check whats in the bottom of the pot/bucket. If theres a lot put it in a seperate pot bring to the boil and add it to the main boil (the reason you bring to the boil is if you just put it staight into the main boil it takes the main boil 'off the boil' and throws your boiling time out). If there's only a small bit just chuck it in the main boil. You be amazed at how much grain can absorb and how much extra runnings you get but doing this extra long lauter
 
Mash efficiency is the amount of sugar extraction before losses, and 'brewing efficiency' is the figure after losses. I think! I calc efficiency cos I base it in the OG reading from the FV. And got 80% last time, after losses. Not bad with home milled grains and a home made bag in a stockpot!
 
Definately can't say your wrong, Clibit, think I might be conflating the two somewhere along the line. I just think of it of how much sugars I've managed washed off the grain and whether I've managed to hit my OG target, surpassed it, or fell short. So I guess I'm talking about mash efficiency in your description above?
 
clibit said:
I buy whole malt and mill it myself. My efficiency has increased since I started milling it twice, with my hand cranked cheap mill. Got 80% last time, in a 15L pot with a bag. 10L brew.
Click to expand...
I've only ever bought crushed (I can't (yet) justify to SWMBO why I need to spend more). How fine do you grind it? Is it just about cracking the hulls, or do you keep going until all the grain is broken down? Last lot I got was almost like flour - wasn't sure to brew or make bread!
 
I crush it pretty fine, esp for BIAB. Improves efficiency. Less fine for the mashtun or you get a stuck sparge.
 
clibit said:
Mash efficiency is the amount of sugar extraction before losses, and 'brewing efficiency' is the figure after losses. I think! I calc efficiency cos I base it in the OG reading from the FV. And got 80% last time, after losses. Not bad with home milled grains and a home made bag in a stockpot!
Click to expand...
http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

This is how I understand it - more than one way of describing 'efficiency'. Currently googling 'mangle' (as in Aunty Mable caught her left one in it) - I think I might be able to cobble up a diy crusher.
 
I don't get huge amounts Of trub. My muslin bag doesnt let a lot through.

I suspect mash efficiency is based on pre boil gravity and brewing efficiency on quantity of beer packaged and the OG pre fermentation. Something like that.
 

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