Flash Chiller to cool wort?

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My idea wasn't so much as cooling wort per say. Going opposite in that you're recirculating a fixed amount of liquid, let's just call it what I'm suggesting, a glycol chiller. You're turning your flash chiller into a glycol chiller. ...
Ah, so I've misinterpreted your post. Is this better:

The chiller doesn't receive the wort at all, instead water in another tank (the "buffer" tank in glycol cooler designs - you've forced me to do a bit of reading) is recirculated through the cooling (product) coils of the chiller ahead of brewing, and through the CFC to cool the wort when the time comes. The "buffer" tank obviously has much more volume than the chiller and smooths the erratic and limited chilling of the cooler (by maintaining the icewall if not actually converting the chiller to glycol).

And as you've said, no need to sanitise the chiller because wort doesn't touch it. If I've got that right I think I'll be looking into that solution too!
 
Ah, so I've misinterpreted your post. Is this better:

The chiller doesn't receive the wort at all, instead water in another tank (the "buffer" tank in glycol cooler designs - you've forced me to do a bit of reading) is recirculated through the cooling (product) coils of the chiller ahead of brewing, and through the CFC to cool the wort when the time comes. The "buffer" tank obviously has much more volume than the chiller and smooths the erratic and limited chilling of the cooler (by maintaining the icewall if not actually converting the chiller to glycol).

And as you've said, no need to sanitise the chiller because wort doesn't touch it. If I've got that right I think I'll be looking into that solution too!

Haha, no, I'm saying that is NOT what I want to do. I'm going to put the wort through the chiller. I WILL be sanitising it, as I do before I always use it. I'll be recirculating the wort into the chiller and back into the boil kettle after flame out.

It takes a good 5 or 6 hours from start until it turns itself off as it has reached temperature.

I put the 50 odd litres of excess water through it last time at normal pump speed and I think it took about 20 mins to get all that water through the chiller once and down to 'very cold'. I didn't measure the temp as I knew it was too cold.

I'll leave the chiller plugged in while I'm putting the wort through it, so it will continue to chill.

My question was with flash cooling the wort down to 4 deg C and pumping it to the boil kettle, would I be doing any damage to the wort while tell temperature is yo yo in.
 
Haha, no, I'm saying that is NOT what I want to do...
Sorry, I was replying to "JapanBrew". I know what you want to do but I don't think it will work given that it doesn't work well for me and I'm not trying anything as extreme as you are suggesting. But "JapanBrew" was suggesting something that may be interesting, i.e. storing the output of the cooler until it is needed (sort of "accumulator").

But as I've got you now; why are you worried about the temperature yo-yoing? Do you intend to recycle the wort back to the kettle until the temperature is right? If so that is what I do, but only to get the bulk down to 60-70C (so I'm cooling it to 30C then mixing with the rest of the wort to get 60+C). Haven't even considered whether it's harmful or not, and the results are perfectly alright.

(EDIT: Rereading seems I might be assuming right now. You've certainly got more patience than me recirculating for 5-6 hours until the cooler finally tells you it is done. I, and some of the others, thought you where trying to get a "single-pass" solution. So the answer to your question is ... has anyone got the specific experience to tell you?)
 
peebee thanks.
Thank you! You've kicked me into action to order the few parts necessary to recirculate my fermenter through the chiller product coils to get rid of those few extra degrees (it will have already been attached to the brewery CFC). For me that just meant a tri-clover to cam-lock adapter.

Being able to recirculate the fermenter (it already has a pump attached) makes sterilising the chiller coils a whole lot easier.

I'd still advise you to cool your wort "conventionally" before recirculating through the chiller. Not only will this cut off a big chunk of time, you've expressed concern about what the temperature yo-yoing might do to your wort: But what about subjecting the chiller's refrigeration unit to those high temperatures? My chiller states no temperatures higher than 40C (it is not a Maxi, but very like one).

"JapanBrew's" "buffering" suggestions would also speed your cooling immensely, and isolate the chiller from near boiling temperatures. Worth considering.


(EDIT: Cor, I'll be able to cold crash now as well. Hum, if you've seen some of my past posts you'll know exactly what I think about the term "cold crash". I think I need to be chained up to my kennel for a day or two.)
 
... You've kicked me into action ...
As I'm a bit creepy I draw all my kit and alterations so I can better check it's all going together. This is the schematic including the "shelf chiller" (Maxi, or whatever) which is getting a little bit cluttered now. But I can still draw it in its entirety on one A4 sheet, how many chaotic home breweries can boast that?

I don't intend to recirculate the boiler/kettle for the reasons already discussed, I'll recirculate the fermenter. And the output from the kettle (pre-cooled by the CFC to 25-30C) will also be passed through the chiller as currently performed.

Brewery Schematic.jpg
 
As I'm a bit creepy I draw all my kit and alterations so I can better check it's all going together. This is the schematic including the "shelf chiller" (Maxi, or whatever) which is getting a little bit cluttered now. But I can still draw it in its entirety on one A4 sheet, how many chaotic home breweries can boast that?

I don't intend to recirculate the boiler/kettle for the reasons already discussed, I'll recirculate the fermenter. And the output from the kettle (pre-cooled by the CFC to 25-30C) will also be passed through the chiller as currently performed.
Wow......... I think I'll stick with the KISS principle.
Brian
 
Wow......... I think I'll stick with the KISS principle.
Brian
Yeap, the "keep it simple" philosophy has a lot going for it. But this is a permanent installation which means any not so simple bits get hidden away in the build's complexity. A "Grainfather" is probably simple to go out and buy and then use - but what about trying to build one from scratch? The aim of the project was to make it manageable by my non-brewing partner.

And by me! That second "s" in "KISS" might well apply to myself (severe TBI - but I'm getting on a bit anyway).


(EDIT: Look at my choice of Avatar!)
 
Yeap, the "keep it simple" philosophy has a lot going for it. But this is a permanent installation which means any not so simple bits get hidden away in the build's complexity. A "Grainfather" is probably simple to go out and buy and then use - but what about trying to build one from scratch? The aim of the project was to make it manageable by my non-brewing partner.

And by me! That second "s" in "KISS" might well apply to myself (severe TBI - but I'm getting on a bit anyway).


(EDIT: Look at my choice of Avatar!)
The TBI doesn't seem to have effected your thought process:)
 
I have 2 ways to look at it. Seriously, the detail spells it out but all those parts... I was 17 years old when I was named the youngest engineer in Nissan motors history. I loved complicated, effective systems but as time went on, I want talent. I want my ability to shine through. I can understand the schematic all the way through and I envy the discipline to get there. But years ago, after driving out countless staff members and ruining my marriage, I not understood but embraced that KISS lifestyle. I'm making a brewery now but I want it to be about my recipes and my understanding of beer. I want minimum objects and simplictic ways. I want to show my beer they way it was natural made like a fine cake. Each batch has its characteristics. I look at the yeast as much or more than the hops or barley. I watch the temperature closely so the enzymes can do their work. Beer day is the same as when my company was large. I had to manage each member of my team.
Sorry too drunk. Peebee you probably will surpass us all and we'll be watching you on the next documentary for an outstanding brewery. Not joking. I just hope you see your batches as an art. Not a step. Brew beer. Drink and Enjoy the company it brings.
 
Quick update. I've done two brews today, a milk stout and an apa. I forgot to switch the chiller on. I'll be ordering a heat exchanger.
 
Quick update. I've done two brews today, a milk stout and an apa. I forgot to switch the chiller on. I'll be ordering a heat exchanger.
Two! Crikey, just dealing with 1 APA today (kegging) has made for more trauma than I want for the month. And tomorrow I've got to do something about all those spent dry-hops blocking the drain.

Careful choosing a heat exchanger. For many "heat exchanger" means "plate heat exchanger" and they are vulnerable to bunging up if passing hopped wort through them. But folk do use them having taken precautions to avoid blockages. I use a "pipe-in-pipe" style which can be self built and have large bores (e.g. 15mm). If you are handy soldering they are a delight to build, but there are solder-free designs too.
 
Two! Crikey, just dealing with 1 APA today (kegging) has made for more trauma than I want for the month. And tomorrow I've got to do something about all those spent dry-hops blocking the drain.

Careful choosing a heat exchanger. For many "heat exchanger" means "plate heat exchanger" and they are vulnerable to bunging up if passing hopped wort through them. But folk do use them having taken precautions to avoid blockages. I use a "pipe-in-pipe" style which can be self built and have large bores (e.g. 15mm). If you are handy soldering they are a delight to build, but there are solder-free designs too.
With going pipe in pipe, are you using PVC for the outer, I'm guessing 40 or 50mm?
 
With going pipe in pipe, are you using PVC for the outer, I'm guessing 40 or 50mm?
You could use PVC, only the core touches beer/wort. But I use copper, 15mm core, 38mm jacket, and all soldered 'cos I enjoyed that sort of thing (I've since had a down-grade to bodily abilities!). Hosepipe is a popular choice of jacket (but I think the cylindrical result is a bit space consuming), I've also seen stainless steel core in a silicon jacket, on this forum:

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42442

Loads of ideas here:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...=1093#imgrc=n3I-R7FtnhWPTM:&spf=1502010960184

You can see mine tucked away under the worktop with the HLT in this shot:

HERMS-RIMS Hybrid Brewery.jpg
 
You could use PVC, only the core touches beer/wort. But I use copper, 15mm core, 38mm jacket, and all soldered 'cos I enjoyed that sort of thing (I've since had a down-grade to bodily abilities!). Hosepipe is a popular choice of jacket (but I think the cylindrical result is a bit space consuming), I've also seen stainless steel core in a silicon jacket, on this forum:

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42442

Loads of ideas here:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...=1093#imgrc=n3I-R7FtnhWPTM:&spf=1502010960184

You can see mine tucked away under the worktop with the HLT in this shot:
That's a very tidy job:thumb:
 
That's a very tidy job:thumb:
Thanks. One of the "advantages" of having a good clout on the head is I can't ad-lib these construction projects anymore. But I can muddle along by planning them in exquisite detail. Hence a hell of a lot is packed into a very small space. And for what it does it does comply with KISS principles because a lot of unnecessary addons are condensed (complicated plumbing replaced by cheap pumps, dual purpose HERMS coil and wort chiller, etc.). Stuff you can only really see if its all drawn out in front of you. More on the build here:

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63149

It is all getting some modification at the moment, with a "HLT Reseve" taking the place of the RIMS Heater for rapid temperature changes, and introducing this Flash Chiller of course!
 
You could use PVC, only the core touches beer/wort. But I use copper, 15mm core, 38mm jacket, and all soldered 'cos I enjoyed that sort of thing (I've since had a down-grade to bodily abilities!). Hosepipe is a popular choice of jacket (but I think the cylindrical result is a bit space consuming), I've also seen stainless steel core in a silicon jacket, on this forum:

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42442

Loads of ideas here:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...=1093#imgrc=n3I-R7FtnhWPTM:&spf=1502010960184

You can see mine tucked away under the worktop with the HLT in this shot:

Peebee, me likey! That is a cool setup. I'm moving away from gas even though it's cheaper here in Japan than electricity. I ordered 2 more 2000 watt elements to install in my boiler. That gives me 8 kw to play with. But the down side is I'm working with 100 volts so it's a kind of nightmare. The only good thing is, I had the electrician put each outlet on its own 20 amp breaker. Got 4 of those in a row. Pain in the rump work around.
 
... You can see mine tucked away under the worktop with the HLT in this shot:
I knew I had a better piccie of my heat exchanger (but I could have taken another if I got off my backside). That's a RIMS heater on the output side and the MarchMay pump that feeds wort to the heat exchanger core is clearly visible (along with the HLT).

2015-11-20_WEB.jpg
 
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