Advice on a couple of homebrews I've got going.

Hi folks,

Last year was my first year for homebrew. I started out with a Woodfordes Wherry kit which went into a pressure barrel and worked out ok but was a bit yeasty. I did the same brew again a few weeks ago, but this time I racked into a secondary fermenter for a week before bottling to get the beer off the yeast cake. The beer's been in the bottles for 3 weeks now, is clearing well but doesn't seem to be carbonating. Should I be concerned?

Last year I also did a Brewferm Christmas kit which was in the bottles for 5 months before Christmas came around. The beer when bottled was hideously cloudy but after those months had cleared to a beautiful red with a pretty thick yeast bed in the bottom of the bottle. It tasted lovely but it was stupidly lively and I found that to keep the beer clear in the glass I had to decant each bottle into a large jug in a single pour to stop the yeast whooshing up through the beer and turning it cloudy again, and then let the head settle - which alone would virtually fill a 2 litre jug. The first one I opened I wasn't prepared for and when my back was turned to get a glass the beer emptied itself from the bottle over the worktop and kitchen floor and what was left was as cloudy as the day it went in.

I'm having a second crack at this beer this year and for the second year I've also found that the gravity has dropped from 1065° to ~1030° in just 2 days and then appears to have stopped. Last year it took another 3 weeks to gradually get down to the 1020° target.

I really don't know what to do for the best with this one to manage the fermenting process better and calm the beer down in the bottles. Please help.

Many thanks

Dave

I've got a wherry in bottles where some have carbed beautifully - lovely thick head, plenty of fizz - and some that are as flat as <insert your own similie here>. Strange. All I can think is that either I had a bunch of badly rinsed bottles (unlikely as it's only affected this brew) or that there just wasn't enough viable yeast in the top of the FV - it was bottled directly from primary which again seems odd because I've used this method in lots of brews. Ho hum, it's still tasty...

Brewferm Christmas... I did one as well last year, brewed in October, wasn't really ready for Christmas but by the end of January was perfect. Beautiful thick creamy head and crystal clear, just a hint of fizz. I recall that mine was brewed when the weather was still quite warm during that hot spell last year and was bottled after only 9 days in FV, I think the FG was 1.022. I think the trick is to make sure that fermentation has gone to where you would normally call it "finished". Somewhere around the 1.020 mark and no change over 2 or 3 days. The carb seems to come from the more complex carbohydrates left over that the yeast deals with over a good few months...

...or at least that's what I hope happens when I get my Christmas on next week! :thumb:

Could it be that the bottle caps weren't quite secure?

Assuming that you prmed all of the bottles in the same way I cannot see why else you'd get some fizzy and some flat.

Regarding NathanJR`s reply: I do not trust crown caps and cappers which is why I am building up a supply of Grolsch and PET bottles.

Again, seriously doubt that as it's only some bottles in this one batch, all bottles in all batches capped with the same caps and capper...

...also when I say totally flat - there is the merest hint of a Pffffffft on opening, well more of a pft really. :lol:

DaveJFT said:

Last year I also did a Brewferm Christmas kit which was in the bottles for 5 months before Christmas came around. The beer when bottled was hideously cloudy but after those months had cleared to a beautiful red with a pretty thick yeast bed in the bottom of the bottle. It tasted lovely but it was stupidly lively

I'm having a second crack at this beer this year and for the second year I've also found that the gravity has dropped from 1065° to ~1030° in just 2 days and then appears to have stopped. Last year it took another 3 weeks to gradually get down to the 1020° target.


Dave

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Reading the above I would say that if you botttled at 1.020 and then primed as well there was so much fermentable material left that the yeast just kept on carbonating the whole time. I don't know this kit but most beers should get down to 1.008-1.012 before bottling, however the starting FG is high. You might need to check for consistent temperatures whilst fermenting to avoid them becoming "stuck". If they do raising the temperature by moving to a warmer place should get things moving again, even rousing with a sanitised spoon could help. The key element in all this though is geting the brew to 2 or 3 readings the same to ensure that the brew has definitely finished. What does the kit say the FG should be?

I find batch priming (and fining) can help to ensure an even sugar solution going into each bottle. It is very easy to forget you have put sugar in each bottle or even do the same one twice. On a 40 pint ale finishing around 1.010 that is primed with 60-80g of sugar (depends on how much carbonation you like) boiled up in 200ml of water, pour this into a sanitised FV/bottling bucket and rack off the brew into this, stir then bottle, works extremely well. 1 to 2 weeks in the warm (18-22c) then cold conditioning to get the CO2 dissolved into the beer for a couple of weeks and then as long as you can stand before drinking, you should find a very tasty, clear, well carbonated beer.

orlando said:

DaveJFT said:

Last year I also did a Brewferm Christmas kit which was in the bottles for 5 months before Christmas came around. The beer when bottled was hideously cloudy but after those months had cleared to a beautiful red with a pretty thick yeast bed in the bottom of the bottle. It tasted lovely but it was stupidly lively

I'm having a second crack at this beer this year and for the second year I've also found that the gravity has dropped from 1065° to ~1030° in just 2 days and then appears to have stopped. Last year it took another 3 weeks to gradually get down to the 1020° target.


Dave

Click to expand...

Reading the above I would say that if you botttled at 1.020 and then primed as well there was so much fermentable material left that the yeast just kept on carbonating the whole time. I don't know this kit but most beers should get down to 1.008-1.012 before bottling, however the starting FG is high. You might need to check for consistent temperatures whilst fermenting to avoid them becoming "stuck". If they do raising the temperature by moving to a warmer place should get things moving again, even rousing with a sanitised spoon could help. The key element in all this though is geting the brew to 2 or 3 readings the same to ensure that the brew has definitely finished. What does the kit say the FG should be?

I find batch priming (and fining) can help to ensure an even sugar solution going into each bottle. It is very easy to forget you have put sugar in each bottle or even do the same one twice. On a 40 pint ale finishing around 1.010 that is primed with 60-80g of sugar (depends on how much carbonation you like) boiled up in 200ml of water, pour this into a sanitised FV/bottling bucket and rack off the brew into this, stir then bottle, works extremely well. 1 to 2 weeks in the warm (18-22c) then cold conditioning to get the CO2 dissolved into the beer for a couple of weeks and then as long as you can stand before drinking, you should find a very tasty, clear, well carbonated beer.

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Very good point!! The Brewferm Christmas is a real strong dark one and there is NO priming at all. It is just bottled at 1.020 and the residual more complex sugars do the carbonation job over time.

Dave? You didn't prime it with sugar did you???

Hi all, thanks for your replies.

I've actually never primed any of my bottles and always use swing tops except when the bottles are destined as a gift.

As this year I've started using a secondary fermenter I'm wondering whether I should have indeed primed the bottles of Wherry.

As regards the Christmas, the target gravity for bottling is 1020° and as of last night it was still a way off that at 1028° having come down from 1066° since Sunday. There is zero pressure differential in the airlock. It's in the kitchen which is held at a fairly constant 20-22°C. I'll give it a gentle stir tonight and watch what happens over the next couple of days.

Do you think I should use the secondary fermenter on this one or would you have any other advice to avoid the exuberance of carbonation that I got last year?

Thanks.

Dave

When you say "I've actually never primed any of my bottles" do you mean that you always batch prime or don't prime at all...?

If its come down another 2 points since yesterday I'd leave it well alone - it doesn't sound stuck. The airlock will give an indication at best - most FVs are not totally air tight so don't rely on one. The hydrometer readings are showing it is still fermenting. :thumb:

If the last one was excessively carbonated then I would say you either over primed ( sounds like this beer does not need any from other posters ) OR it was not finished fermenting ( the FG in the instructions is a guideline only remember )

It just sounds like the fermentation has slowed - which is pretty expected, esp if you are only 8 points off expected FG. The kit instructions will probably tell you it will ferment out in about 3 hours and 10 minutes - this will not be the case - leave it alone for 10-14 days and then see what it has done. Then check it is stable over 2 or 3 days to ensure it has really finished.

Then try to clear it as much as possible before you bottle it - some people will move to secondary and some just cool it in primary - a concrete floor works well.

calumscott said:

When you say "I've actually never primed any of my bottles" do you mean that you always batch prime or don't prime at all...?

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Sorry calumscott, I mean I've never primed at all.

DaveJFT said:

calumscott said:

When you say "I've actually never primed any of my bottles" do you mean that you always batch prime or don't prime at all...?

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Sorry calumscott, I mean I've never primed at all.

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Well that would probably explain your flat wherry, but certainly not your gushy Christmas...

...are you using the same hydrometer as last year? Could have been a duff reading giving you more sugar left than you thought maybe?

My second wherry kit is awaiting an empty fermentation vat, the first is maturing nicely in a keg :) The instructions definitely require the bottles be primed with 1/2 tea spoon of sugar before capping, it's this that the yeast consumes to put the fizz in the bottle.

Do make sure you put them some where warm for a few days, I skipped this with my first cooper's kit (I didn't read the instructions on that one ) and although secondary fermentation took place it wasn't great and the beer was a little flat, still nice enough that it has been drunk though :) My second lot of bottles (Caxton's) developed a nice fizz after one week next to the radiator and two weeks in a cool place, then a week being drunk (holidays + family = empty bottles).

The Wherry has been in the bottles for 3 weeks now. Would I be too late to add brewers sugar now?

Does anyone know? Am I too late?

Dave

I wouldn't open the bottles now and try and prime, have you had a tester yet ? is it actually flat ?

If it is flat, decant into a large jug so you don't disturb the sediment, then give it 'the long drop' into your glass and you'll at least get a bit of a head. I know this doesn't help if you like fizzy beer, but I'd rather have a 'flat' pint and still have a decent tasting pint that try and prime my bottles that have been maturing for a while :thumb:

joconn said:

Regarding NathanJR`s reply: I do not trust crown caps and cappers which is why I am building up a supply of Grolsch and PET bottles.

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There really isn't a problem with crown caps and a decent capper. I use a bench capper and bottle all my ales and haven't had a single problem :thumb:

.... so far :whistle:

Hi Baz,

Thanks for your reply. There's a little bit of a psst and not too much of a drop is needed to get a respectable head, but the beer is a little flat but perfectly palatable. I'm not too disappointed in it but I vow to get the next one right.

Cheers,

Dave

DaveJFT said:

..... I'm not too disappointed in it but I vow to get the next one right.

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Thats part of the fun of home brewing..... and so it goes on, the quest for the perfect pint :rofl:


:hmm: then repeating the perfect pint etc etc :

Baz Chaz said:

then repeating the perfect pint etc etc :

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Then making just a couple of minor adjustments to get that perfect pint even more, erm, perfect...

gurtpint said:

Baz Chaz said:

then repeating the perfect pint etc etc :

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Then making just a couple of minor adjustments to get that perfect pint even more, erm, perfect...

Click to expand...

You're getting the hang of it pretty quickly my friend