Home Grown Cider - Beginner Questions

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MattH1973

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Hi all

My name is Matt, and for years I have looked at the apple trees in my paddock and thought about cider making. Finally got around to it this year, but as ever with me it was all a bit last minute and unplanned. I have a couple of questions that I haven't been able to work out and would really appreciate advice.... here is where I am

- got about 6.5litres of nice apple juice (frustratingly our big cooking apple tree didn't make many this year)
- PH was 3.4 so I added a little bit of precipitated chalk as I understand this to be at the acid end of the ideal scale. (it tasted great though)
- hydrometer read 1.06 so I decided to add just over 1 litre of water as I prefer about 6% ABV. The experiment I did on a small amount of the juice suggested this was about right, and I wanted more cider in any case.
- now here's the dilemma - I had bought a kit with a 25litre fermenting bucket (ambitious I now know) so it is only about 1/3 full. I added yeast on the day I pressed the juice and fermentation appears to have started in that the levels on the airlock indicate increased pressure due to CO2 in the fermenter. But it isn't bubbling yet.
- I now have a 10litre fermenting bucket and I'm wondering when, whether and how to transfer. Someone said there's no hurry but I should move it over idc. Grateful for thoughts on this - do I just tip it in to the new bucket ? should I add more yeast ? I forgot to add pectolase - so should I add that and then more yeast ?

Many thanks in advance. I see now there is a forum for brewing days - so next year I will post some pics.

All the best - I look forward to keeping you informed on how it turns out, and I expect I will have some more questions come the time for bottling etc.
 
If you have a syphon kit use that, but you could carefully pour into new fermenter trying not to disturb the sediment. You can do it if the sediment is thick on the bottom. Are you sure though that fermentation has stopped in the 25ltr bucket, as most are not particularly well sealed? How long has it been in the fermenter? Does the 10ltr bucket have an airlock?
 
I'd make sure everything is clean (sterile) then carefully pour it straight in. This would keep the exposure to air at a minimum. You could syphon but this would involve having the FVs open for longer.
If you're worried about a stuck fermentation, take a hydrometer reading.
I wouldn't add any more yeast unless it has stuck, and pectolase is really up to you.
I try desperately to get a cloudy cider but it always seems to drop perfectly clear.

Just opinions mind. I'm not a professional.
 
Thanks guys for the quick responses.

I should have been clearer that my worry about the 25l vessel is the excessive amount of air compared to 8l of cider. I started fermenting on Monday night and it's at a steady 15 degrees so I am sure fermentation will still be in progress - I'm expecting about two weeks.

The 10l bucket does have an airlock and I am confident in the seals - otherwise the pressure difference wouldn't show in the airlock.

I'm therefore leaning toward simply tipping it in order to retain the yeast / sediment and hopefully allow fermentation to continue. Presumably the brief opening and tipping shouldn't kill the yeast ?
 
Yeast should be fine, but whats the point there wont be much sediment yet and that has the bulk of the yeast culture. Might as well leave in there till complete, I wouldn't worry about the head space during fermentation. Thing is you'll have to rack again in a week or so when complete.
 
Thanks Tau. Rate of CO2 production is increasing so I will follow your advice and leave it until fermentation slows down.

Having read a number of threads and recipies I'm a bit unclear on what comes next:
- I know I need to siphon (rack?) into a secondary vessel and have all the kit to do that. I will also do a hydrometer reading at this point and if fermentation is complete add Campden and Quick Clear.
- Where I am less clear is how important it is to bulk age in the secondary vessel, and if I do that how crucial it is that vessel is filled to the brim. My easiest option is to put the 8l of cider in a 10l fermentation bucket with airlock. If that's no good I'll need to either procure vessels of precisely the right size, or alternatively bottle in brown PET bottles which I have.

So to sum up my choices are:
a) bulk age 8l of cider in 10l bucket with airlock
b) bottle into brown PET bottles following minimal time in the secondary vessel
c) purchase a new vessel at exactly 8l.

Advice welcome ! - thanks in advance....
 
quick update.

The airlock had levelled off so I thought I'd take a look. Smelled like fermenting alcohol, looked like fermenting alcohol, and a nice bit of sediment. Read 1.01 on the hydrometer so fermentation is nearly done. Interesting that it got so far in 6 days in a cellar at 15 degrees - proof hat steady temp is better than warm. I will give it another week.

Obviously I drank the hydrometer sample. A little bitter but it certainly tasted like nice cider. With a bit of flavouring prior to bottling I am cautiously optimistic - and having great fun.....

Advice still welcome on the secondary vessel question above.
 
Updating this, the hydrometer readings stayed at 1.01 so I racked into a clean vessel on Sunday and then bottled last night. Seemed reasonably clear considering I didn't use Pectolase at the start or finings at the end. Having read some useful threads on hear I also decided against further flavouring on the basis that:
- the sugar I added when bottling will presumably change the flavor a little, even if it ferments
- I don't mind a dry cider
- I have read that a secondary (malolactic ?) fermentation may take place and sweeten the taste as the bottles age
- as this is my first ever batch there's no point modifying the flavor when I don't know what it will taste like post bottling anyway

So in summary this is a very natural cider, a little precipated chalk, yeast, nutrient and campden tablets are the only addition. I have made some errors along the way - the main one being that I should have got a demijohn for bulk ageing with no oxygen exposure. And I'm a bit worried about oxidization in the week after fermentation stopped. But it didn't smell or taste of vinegar (just a little bitter, he says, trying to reassure himself) so I hope it will be OK. It's been great fun, and this forum is a great resource. I'll update you when the drinking starts - which despite the advice to age it will probably be quite soon I expect. Hopefully I will be disciplined enough to keep a few bottles until spring.

Next year I will change the following (depending on taste)
- Might add pectolase
- get more apples, and try to freeze prior to pressing
- ferment for two weeks in the cellar, don't sample in that time
- Bulk ageing in a suitable, full demijohn
 
the last bottle I filled wasn't quite full and had a ton of sediment, so after it sitting for 2 weeks I drank it last night. Slightly carbonated, delicious dry cider, just a little bit cloudy.....

assuming that the other bottles are better, and will improve with age, I'm delighted a how it turned out. Many thanks to all contributors to this forum.
 
Been storing my bottles in the cellar. Had a look tonight and they suddenly all cleared. Thought I'd better drink one. Absolutely delicious ! Those who say how cider improves with age are absolutely right. I'm going to try and hold off until Christmas before I drink any more.
 
That's a great update. I'm a first timer who's a week or two behind you. I racked my cider off to some demijohns and carboys last week. It all looked a bit day glo orange but started settling / clearing within a day or two. I'll bottle about a 3rd of this at least 2 weeks before Xmas for a little tasting over the festive period.

Hopefully I can lay off the rest for another bottling in the spring!
 
I found that 1tsp of sugar per 500ml bottle gave a nice gentle carbonation - pleasant to taste and enough to assure oneself that it will preserve in the bottle.
 
quick update. Before Christmas this brew drank really well - certainly comparing favourably with any craft cider I ever bought. Interestingly, even non cider fans think it is delicious which I put down to using a bare minimum of added ingredients. I have about 3 litres to enjoy once dry January is over and will savour every sip.

Top tip - the research I did made clear that apple tree pruning is crucial to size and yield of apples. Now is the perfect time to do it so wait for a clear winters day and get out there. I pruned 4 trees over Christmas, two of which are hundreds of years old and yields had started to drop. I am hoping this gives them a boost.
 
So it's apple harvest time and I'm back on here.

Aforementioned winter pruning worked a treat - bumper yields on the oldest trees. The newer trees a little down - perhaps its that old thing of them alternating good an bad years.

Planted a variety of other apple trees over winter. Will take a few years to produce but the main thing with my sandy soil is that they survived their first summer. Roots should now be low enough to negate the need for watering.

So will be picking, crushing and pressing over the next few weeks......
 
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