Importance of mash temp control vs fermentation temp control

Loetz · Mar 18, 2012

I was thinking about this HERMS system that Im setting up and Im wondering what effect it will have on the flavor of my brew.

I already have a 70l thermoport, and Im planning to put together a HERMS but I wont have any serious fermentation temp control for a while. I just dont have the money to throw at powering another fridge right now.

This makes me wonder if its really worth it to run the HERMS if im not even controlling the fermentation temp. I understand that the two things control different flavors, but Im thinking generally here.

I want to run a loose opinion poll.

What do you think has the most effect on the final flavor of your beer; using a ferm control or HERMS?
Assume that you only have a total 20 points to assign to the two types of controls, and weigh out their importance.

For example if I thought that ferm control was really important but using a HERMS was slightly important too, I might say:

Ferm 15
HERMS 5

If I thought that HERMS was pretty important and ferm control was nearly as important, I might say:

Ferm 8
HERMS 12

Keep in mind that Im just trying to start a dialog here, and that I understand that there are a million variables that go in to factoring this. ie. What is the temp of your FV storage location? Are you using liquid yeasts that require specific temps? etc.

Also, please assume that the alternative to using HERMS is to just use a cooler or thermopot.

PVE · Mar 18, 2012

Hello
I cannot understand why you want to oppose temp. of mash/temp. of fermentation

The matters are quite different.

If you control the mash, it has a great influence in term of body. The higher the temp. the higher the body
If you control the fermentation temp., then you can promote (or avoid) estery flavors.

So, I think it is important to control both mash and fermentation temperatures

Loetz · Mar 18, 2012

Loetz said:
I understand that the two things control different flavors, but Im thinking generally here.

I want to run a loose opinion poll.

Ok and you missed my point.

You can either sit around saying that its not the same thing, or you can participate by saying what you think is more important when considering the final product.

PVE said:
So, I think it is important to control both mash and fermentation temperatures

Unless we can take that as a:
Ferm 10
HERMS 10

prolix · Mar 18, 2012

I use temp control for repeatablity, I control the mash to the exact temp for the beer I want and I can repeat it every time.

For fermentation, similar thing only brew during the cooler months, saves having to cool the ferment but I do heat to ensure temperature is constant and as required, generally 19c for me.

As to which is more important, as long as the mash is 66-68 control not vital, same with the ferment 18-20 but not vital within the range.

But for repeatability the mash temp for me is the most important as those two degrees make the brew taste descernably different whereas in the fermentation they don't.

If we assume that the brewer gets in the temp ranges for mash and fermentation every time then

Herms 20
Ferm 0

Loetz · Mar 18, 2012

prolix said:
But for repeatability the mash temp for me is the most important as those two degrees make the brew taste descernably different whereas in the fermentation they don't.

Herms 20
Ferm 0

Interesting.
What kind of yeast do you tend to use?

prolix · Mar 18, 2012

darker stronger beers saf s-04, pale lighter beers Nottingham or saf us-05.

Have used liquids yeasts but tend to brew same fours brews and the dried do the job very well.

Loetz · Mar 18, 2012

Heres another way to look at this poll if youre having a hard time with it:

Pretend that there is a guy with a gun pointed at your brewery. He says that he is going to shoot the PID that you have connected to your mash tun or the PID you have connected to your FV. You have to decide which one he will shoot.

Assume that the man is really unfriendly.

prolix · Mar 18, 2012

That is not a very nice man at all! :nono:

BarnsleyBrewer · Mar 18, 2012

Loetz said:
Pretend that there is a guy with a gun pointed at your brewery. He says that he is going to shoot the PID that you have connected to your mash tun or the PID you have connected to your FV. You have to decide which one he will shoot.

Assume that the man is really unfriendly.

Hey, you can't come over here pointing guns, that's not nice.

But I would say
HERMS 15
FERM 5

BB

jamesb · Mar 18, 2012

As far as I'm concerned, fermentation temperature is more important than mash temperature.

That being said, as long as temperatures for either are kept in the right ballpark then the beer should be fairly consistent.

Swift Pint · Mar 18, 2012

I would say, it depends on if you are going to be doing step mashing or not. If not then I'd say:
HERMS 1
FERM 19

If you are filling a 70l thermopot then, firstly its insulated & secondly its got a relatively large thermal mass, so I doubt you are really going to lose temp over the mash. The key will be getting consistency in your process so that you always get your liquor up to the correct temp so that you hit the desired mash temperature.

Fermentation temp is v important. In terms of getting the right temp, but also a consistent temp. A few degrees either way will impact the flavours given off by the yeast.

I think hitting the correct mash temp you can acheive without HERMS through consistent brewing process, whereas fermentation temp will be harder to get consistently at the temp you desire.

sib67 · Mar 18, 2012

Herms - 0
Ferm - 20

evanvine · Mar 18, 2012

Herms 15
Ferm 5

jimw86 · Mar 18, 2012

I'd say that if you can't afford to run a fridge, don't build a herms set up. Your talking pence a week.

If you want to make good beer then both are just as important. But if I had to pick, as long as you get your strike temp right for what your brewing then fermentation temp all day long.

Darcey · Mar 18, 2012

Herms - 0
Ferm - 20
Squirrels - 1

assuming a 1 point inaccuracy of squirrel calculation.

jamesb · Mar 18, 2012

Never underestimate the importance of squirrels to the brewing process.

evanvine · Mar 18, 2012

jamesb said:
Never underestimate the importance of squirrels to the brewing process.

Only a hippie could come up with that one!

jamesb · Mar 18, 2012

evanvine said:
jamesb said:

Never underestimate the importance of squirrels to the brewing process.

Click to expand...

Only a hippie could come up with that one!

*poises finger over the banning button....

Loetz · Mar 19, 2012

jimw86 said:
I'd say that if you can't afford to run a fridge, don't build a herms set up. Your talking pence a week.

How much does it cost to run a fermentation fridge?

Darcey · Mar 19, 2012

How much does it cost to run a fermentation fridge?

If your fermenting @ 20c then my fridge hardly comes on at all!

Importance of mash temp control vs fermentation temp control

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