A new setup for the monthly comps

Chippy_Tea said:

To add to the above -

If members would prefer a poll I need poll options to put into it, if members would prefer to do it this way MP me the options.

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It seems clear that the first order of business is...

How the frig do we move this forward?

It's the forums competition so it's important the forum decides. We just need to make sure that:

a) people's opinions are heard
b) the vocal minority don't over awe the majority
c) it doesn't rumble on forever. The competition has a real risk of dying if we don't sort something in the next few months.

Chippy_Tea said:

I can send PM's to 300 members at a time but I have to manually add each member, I have not seen an option to email several members at the same time, I think the way forward is to open a thread here and ask what each member thinks the way forward should be then when everyone (the regulars) have had their say it can be taken from there.

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I take it your forum mail doesn't list contacts like a standard account where can select contacts option select all.

Guessing that most members who regularly visit view by selecting either new or today's post,so is it possible to bump a poll each day so it gets highlighted for a temporary time i.e. a month although I know this a bad time of year with holidays though I do recall seeing that mid august last year was the busiest time to date for the forum.

We know this is going to be headache to get sorted and don't worry as I'm sure there is plenty of help at hand and I for one will do what I can as I like the Idea of the competition especially next month.

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I think one issue might be that life get's in the way of brewing for many people. For example, I fully intended to enter the competition in styles I brew, which is actually only around 30 per cent of those listed. For one the low temperatures meant I missed out and the though of rushing a batch and ruining it to get one bottle wasn't one I was happy with. On another house renovations took precedence, and for another (I think it was stouts) I tend to only brew those for winter.

I think an 'open' competition wouldn't work, but maybe something where an ingredient is specified and the aim is to makes that shine might be more fluid. For example, Nelson Sauvin hops. Now, most people might think IPA and would follow that path, but if someone wants to plough their own farrow they might opt for an NS hopped brown ale or a Weiss. The judge then wouldn't be looking to compare an IPA with a brown ale, but judging both to see how well they've brought the NS to the forefront of the beer.

The specified ingredient could be a hop, a grain, a yeast, an adjunct such as unmalated grain, a fruit or spice. You might even run an on-going poll to vote for future competition ingredients.

Of course, the weakness might be if an expensive or hard to obtain ingredient (like Nelson Sauvin) puts some people off. If so it could be generalised to New World hop, saison yeast, berries of any type, etc.. This also allows kit brewers to participate as they can add hops, change yeasts and steep speciality grains.

Also, I have three months of the year when I make no beer because I'm busy with cider. Such an approach would allow cider makers (both normal and turbo) to join in if the ingredient was a hop, yeast or adjunct.

I think the styles provide some structure to the competition, and a free format might be too tricky to judge (though we do have some like Smash and Low ABV where any style could be entered). I agree with a lot of the previous comments that ultimately what we all really gain out of this process is to share beer with each other and get feedback, albeit it can also be helpful to get that feedback within the context of a style. I do think some of the styles could probably be merged or tweaked slightly. For example for our purposes the segregation between Belgian and Trappist is probably unnecessary, and call me a heathen but I don't really understand where the line between a Bitter and a Brown Ale is (give me a Newkie Brown in a blind tasting and I'd probably call it a bitter - burn the witch!). So I suppose where I'm getting to is that there might be a halfway house between the current styles and the idea of a free format competition whereby the styles still exist but are more widely defined than currently.

Another point I'd make is that great proportion of the entries in either "Beer Brewdays" or "What did you brew today" seem to American Pale/IPA, English style Bitter/Pale Ales and Stouts, such that these styles are probably underrepresented on the ongoing competition schedule (having been the first few months competition styles). I think there's probably a case to be made for having those styles more frequently and then people can send in a beer they happened to have in anyway, rather than brewing specifically for the competition. This would probably increase entry numbers. By the same token, I wonder if these styles were spread evenly through the year with the more niche or experimental ones sprinkled in, the competition wouldn't get into a rut of a few months in a row of low entry numbers.

I know how valuable I've found the feedback from both bottle swaps and the competitions so I really would hate to see them fall away, so I'm just giving some thoughts I've had rather than a coherent strategy per se.

What about a trying something different. How about instead of a comp or to run alongside it we have a beer club.

Those who joined have to commit of course. Say we create groups of 6. Each month we all send one bottle of one person (reviewer) the role of reviewer changes each month and after 6 months we can change the groups around.

That way we all get to try beers of various styles.

Leon103 said:

What about a trying something different. How about instead of a comp or to run alongside it we have a beer club.

Those who joined have to commit of course. Say we create groups of 6. Each month we all send one bottle of one person (reviewer) the role of reviewer changes each month and after 6 months we can change the groups around.

That way we all get to try beers of various styles.

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Now that sounds interesting enough..

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DoctorMick said:

I think @JFB knows you mean him! :lol: The reason certain people come out in the honours each time is:

a) they're bloody good brewers
b) they enter most months

I'd like to change one of the upcoming months to American Ales to see what the interest is like before abandoning the competition format.

I'd also like permission to post a new thread in the main forum for that month as a one off, I'm convinced it being in a infrequently viewed subforum doesn't help. I know the old comp thread is there but I suspect people ignore big old stickies.

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I think option B best describes me!

Ajhutch said:

Another point I'd make is that great proportion of the entries in either "Beer Brewdays" or "What did you brew today" seem to American Pale/IPA, English style Bitter/Pale Ales and Stouts, such that these styles are probably underrepresented on the ongoing competition schedule (having been the first few months competition styles). I think there's probably a case to be made for having those styles more frequently and then people can send in a beer they happened to have in anyway, rather than brewing specifically for the competition. This would probably increase entry numbers.

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Good idea. Loads of people brew these styles.

I don't think that keeping the same judging format whilst making each month open to any style would put people off.Highest scoring beers win, regardless of category.

No one expects BJCP standard feedback/judging nor should they. That doesn't make our HBF judges feedback less valuable. They are still active brewers and have a pretty good idea of how things should taste.

It might also be wise for the judge of any month to set a cap for the number of entries that they are comfortable with judging.

As we seem to have stagnated, can I suggest the following revised schedule:

Sep-17 American Pale Ales (IPAs, wheat, pale ales, DIPAs, BIPAs)
Oct-17 Dark Beers (Stouts, Porters, Dark Milds, BIPAs as well I'd guess)
Nov-17 Freestyle (absolutely anything at all, lager, sour, Belgian etc.)
Dec-17 British Pale Ales, Bitters and Milds
Jan-18 American Pale Ales
Feb-18 Dark Beers
Mar-18 Freestyle
Apr-18 British Pale Ales, Bitters and Milds

After that we can just continue on the same cycle.

This way the frequently brewed beers can be judged together but the styles that have attracted few entries can be put together. It should also cover absolutely anything people brew and it'd be a maximum 4 month wait before a suitable competition comes around. What do people think? The September comp should be opening soon really so it'd be good to make a decision in the next week or so.

DoctorMick said:

As we seem to have stagnated, can I suggest the following revised schedule:

Sep-17 American Pale Ales (IPAs, wheat, pale ales, DIPAs, BIPAs)
Oct-17 Dark Beers (Stouts, Porters, Dark Milds, BIPAs as well I'd guess)
Nov-17 Freestyle (absolutely anything at all, lager, sour, Belgian etc.)
Dec-17 British Pale Ales, Bitters and Milds
Jan-18 American Pale Ales
Feb-18 Dark Beers
Mar-18 Freestyle
Apr-18 British Pale Ales, Bitters and Milds

After that we can just continue on the same cycle.

This way the frequently brewed beers can be judged together but the styles that have attracted few entries can be put together. It should also cover absolutely anything people brew and it'd be a maximum 4 month wait before a suitable competition comes around. What do people think? The September comp should be opening soon really so it'd be good to make a decision in the next week or so.

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I'm up for that. I'm currently down to judge November and would be happy to still do so on the basis of the proposed schedule.

Sounds good, still up for judging September too!

SLAP to me[emoji106]

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Sounds good to me.

I think this should work nicely. i'm guessing the freestyle months might get all the belgian, trappist, saison brews.

I'm presuming that "dark beers" would cover belgian dark strong and dubbel too?

AlanManley and I volunteered to judge early next year, I've sent him a PM to see if his choice of month has changed. Currently, he'd be on Feb (dark) and I'd be March (freestyle).

Zephyr259 said:

I think this should work nicely. i'm guessing the freestyle months might get all the belgian, trappist, saison brews.

I'm presuming that "dark beers" would cover belgian dark strong and dubbel too?

AlanManley and I volunteered to judge early next year, I've sent him a PM to see if his choice of month has changed. Currently, he'd be on Feb (dark) and I'd be March (freestyle).

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I'd say as long as it's dark it fits the category, doesn't matter if the entry requirements are quite loose.

I think a consolidation of categories would make sense. And ultimately we want to encourage as many as people as possible enter into these things. Get involved, get feedback, improve your beer.

So I am in favour of the proposal. Voting or whichever is needed to get us to agree as a group and move the comp forward.

I think I was down to judge the October IPA category in the original comp "format".


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DoctorMick said:

As we seem to have stagnated, can I suggest the following revised schedule:

Sep-17 American Pale Ales (IPAs, wheat, pale ales, DIPAs, BIPAs)
Oct-17 Dark Beers (Stouts, Porters, Dark Milds, BIPAs as well I'd guess)
Nov-17 Freestyle (absolutely anything at all, lager, sour, Belgian etc.)
Dec-17 British Pale Ales, Bitters and Milds
Jan-18 American Pale Ales
Feb-18 Dark Beers
Mar-18 Freestyle
Apr-18 British Pale Ales, Bitters and Milds

After that we can just continue on the same cycle.

This way the frequently brewed beers can be judged together but the styles that have attracted few entries can be put together. It should also cover absolutely anything people brew and it'd be a maximum 4 month wait before a suitable competition comes around. What do people think? The September comp should be opening soon really so it'd be good to make a decision in the next week or so.

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Seems like the best way forward :thumb:

Playing Devil's Advocate for a second, has this not 'dumbed down' the competition to a point where it becomes somewhat too simple? You might see a short term increase in entries, but at the expense of it being people chucking in a bottle of whatever they have. Judging becomes difficult, but more importantly the competition becomes less of a challenge and has reduced focus.

Is the goal to only get feedback (which is not published so non-participants don't get dragged in or learn anything) or to also engage members and get them into brewing something specific that they might not normally try? Many of us can already get feedback from friends, so without an element of challenge the wider categories might serve to discourage some of the more competent brewers.

A reduced frequency coupled with a competitive challenge could help to whip up interest, especially if given a good lead time combined with an active thread where participants discuss how they'll meet the brief, rather than just people saying they'll enter.

It also doesn't help that the competition threads are somewhat disjointed. How many times have people stated that they'd have entered if they'd been aware of the style in advance, despite the list having been up for ages?

The top two sections are the busiest (putting the Snug to one side for the moment) so that's were Competion threads should be. A challenge such as 'brew with a fruit or vegetable', accompanied by an active discussion of ideas and approaches, might draw in more entrants who could be inspired by others' ideas. It's a bit of fun so people won't be secretive with their recipes.

I'd argue that three very general categories plus an open round repeated on a monthly cycle will actually be too uninspiring for many in the long run.

@The Idiot - The competition threads are here because the owner doesn't want several sticky threads for the same subject in the main forums and he had a clear out recently we had a heads up thread in beer brewing discussion so any time a thread was posted here attention could be brought to it in one of the busiest forums I don't think where they are posted is the reason the interest has dwindled the reasons have been posted already here.