Help wanted for a Lager style recipe ...

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I intend to prepare a 23 litre brew and lager it at 10 degrees for 11 weeks, so I'm looking for a recipe that will just use the ingredients that I have to hand as follows:

Grains
Maris Otter
Caramel Malt
Crystal Malt
Chocolate Malt
Plain or Toasted Oats

Hops
East Kent Goldings Whole Leaf
Styrian Goldings Whole Leaf
Sazz Whole Leaf
Perle Whole Leaf
Cascade Pellets
Hallertau Pellets
Citra Pellets

Yeast
Youngs Lager Yeast

It is for the summer months so I would like a fairly bitter, low ABV (4% - 5%) brew with a decent twang of hops in the finished product.

At the end of the 11 weeks all I wish to do is transfer it to a Bottling Bucket, carbonate it and then bottle it.

Assuming that I can find the right recipe, Plan A is:
o 21st March start the brew.
o 4th April rack into secondary FV and place in the fridge at 10 degrees.
o 20th June bottle and carbonate at 18 degrees.
o 4th July move to shelves at ambient to clear.
o 18th July sample the finished product (if clear).

That's not too long if you say it quick! :lol:

Looking forward to suggestions! :thumb:
 
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What type of crystal? If you had some brown malt you could do a Baltic porter

I'm not really sure. These are the descriptions:

Crystal Malt
"A British invention. It is then kilned at about 250oC which
caramelises the malt as it dries leaving it a golden red colour.

This imparts a distinctive coppery hue, and a nutty caramel flavour.
Crystal malt contains a high proportion of dextrin.
This gives both body and a degree of sweetness that will perfectly
balance the high hop levels traditionally found in British beers."

Caramalt
The palest of all crystal malts, this grain is used when a crystal
character is required without unduly darkening the beer.
Particularly suitable for pale ales and bitters.​

I have about 18kg of Maris Otter (which will be used in a series of SMASH beer experiments with the various hops I have) but I'm at the tail end of the other malts, having about 500g of each ...

... and not wanting to buy any more until this lot is finished. :thumb:
 
Hi!
Saaz Single Hop Ale:
4.7kg pale malt
235g Carapils malt (which, I believe, can be substituted with caramel malt)
Saaz hops
64g at 70 min
32g at 55 min
32g at 65 min
99g at flameout (70 minute boil).
6 weeks lagering.
Check out Greg Hughes' book pages 116 to 121
 
If you only have Marris Otter as a base malt I'd forget about making a lager. MO is too malty and 'full' a flavour for lagers it has a biscuityness which is desired in ale but not in your average lager. I'd use it to make an ale as that's what MO is surperb at. Of course theres nothing to stop you using MO for a lager. I use lager malt as my base malt for everything. Then add other malts like biscuit or munich if I want to tweek the flavour in a particular direction
 
I'm just carbing up a lager attempt using extra pale maris otter, so I'll let ya know how it comes out,

but pilsner should be used really, along with a touch of carapils or light crystal and then usually some flaked rice, corn or oats.



I tried some early testers of my red stripe clone thingy and its parti-gyle last night, bottled on 4th feb, so only had two weeks carbing and week in the cold, the main brew is nicely carbed and tastes good, matbe a touch sweeter than my liking, but overall I'm pleased with my first attempt at a proper lager and its early days so it may improve, and I now have a good base to tweak from.

the parti-gyle was different, weaker obviously and not quite fully carbed up, but it was very nice and I got the hopping just right and the centennial is coming through really nice and I enjoyed it.

I think the two brews mixed together could be great, might have to test that out in a few more weeks.
 
If you only have Marris Otter as a base malt I'd forget about making a lager. MO is too malty and 'full' a flavour for lagers it has a biscuityness which is desired in ale but not in your average lager. I'd use it to make an ale as that's what MO is surperb at. Of course theres nothing to stop you using MO for a lager. I use lager malt as my base malt for everything. Then add other malts like biscuit or munich if I want to tweek the flavour in a particular direction



This bloke is talking sense. Listen to @MyQul If you do want a "lager" as your describing. Or even at least a pseudo lager. You'll need a min of 50% pilsner/lager malt in your recipe.

Otherwise I think you might end up with something that's drinkable. But will be oddly crisp (from you lager yeast) and then oddly malty from the MO.

For the sake of something that's going to sit for 3 months til you drink it I would get the right ingredients in.

On that front you say about bottling/carbing after 11 weeks? Is that right? I would think you would want to bottle using the standard 2+2+2 method (allowing for a slower lager ferment cycle and dice toy rest) And then lager in the keg/bottle at your 2oC temp for 8 ish weeks.


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Many thanks for all the comments and suggestions; I am now on Plan B! :thumb:

I read this Post earlier today ...
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68917&page=2

This is from my Brew Diary last year for a Coopers Lager:

"Started 23rd August 2016 with addition of 950g Golden Syrup and 50g of Fuggles hop pellets.
Youngs lager yeast pitched at 23 degrees. Fermenting at 21 degrees in fridge.
Racked to second FV on 1st September 2016.
Lagering at 10 degrees from 1st September to 8th November.
Bottled in flip-tops 8th November 2016
OG 1.042
FG 1.010
ABV 4.2%
Kcal per Litre = 404Kcal"

It was a lovely brew that restored my faith in Lager and Lager Kits so Plan B is:

Start a Coopers Lager on 14th March 2017 with addition of 950g Golden
Syrup and 50g of Cascade hop pellets.
Pitch Youngs lager yeast at 23 degrees. Ferment at 21 degrees in fridge.
Rack to second FV on 25th March 2017 and Cold Crash FV at lowest
possible temperature in fridge. (Dependent on SG of 1.012 or less.)
1st April, syphon Lager off into Bottling Bucket, prime with 85g of sugar,
bottle in flip-tops and put on garage shelf to carbonate and condition,
for a minimum of 10 weeks.

If the other Thread is correct, I should return to a brilliant pint of proper Lager; if not then it's back to the drawing board! :doh:

Again, many thanks for the suggestions and recommendations. :thumb: :thumb:
 
Rubbish, break the rules. Ok. If you are trying to brew a competition winning pilsner then myqul has a valid point, but then I'd also say you need a good liquid yeast and have to be bang on with water treatment.

Alternatively, use your MO, Youngs yeast and Saaz to brew a perfectly acceptable Vienna Lager.

From BJCP style guidelines - "7A. Vienna Lager

Overall Impression: A moderate-strength amber lager with a soft, smooth maltiness and moderate bitterness, yet finishing relatively dry. The malt flavor is clean, bready-rich, and somewhat toasty, with an elegant impression derived from quality base malts and process, not specialty malts and adjuncts."

Quality base malt, malty, bready, somewhat toasty? MO not suitable? Really?

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Rubbish, break the rules. Ok. If you are trying to brew a competition winning pilsner then myqul has a valid point, but then I'd also say you need a good liquid yeast and have to be bang on with water treatment.

Alternatively, use your MO, Youngs yeast and Saaz to brew a perfectly acceptable Vienna Lager.

From BJCP style guidelines - "7A. Vienna Lager

Overall Impression: A moderate-strength amber lager with a soft, smooth maltiness and moderate bitterness, yet finishing relatively dry. The malt flavor is clean, bready-rich, and somewhat toasty, with an elegant impression derived from quality base malts and process, not specialty malts and adjuncts."

Quality base malt, malty, bready, somewhat toasty? MO not suitable? Really?

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

What a tremendous read that is; and I've only read about 2% of it!

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf

So, here's Plan C! :lol: :lol:

I will brew TWO batches of Vienna Lager as follows:

Ingredients
5.30kg of Maris Otter
0.20kg of Caramalt.

Mashing at 65 degrees for an hour should ensure that, as required by the style:
o The OG is 1.048 to 1.055.
o The FG is 1.010 to 1.014.
o The ABV is 5.4% to 5.5%.
o The colour is SRM 9-15

The style states that floral, spicy hop aroma may be low to none so, for the required IBU of 18 to 30, the wort will be boiled:
o 60 minutes with 40g of Hallertau Hop Pellets for bitterness
o 10 minutes with 10g of Hallertau Hop Pellets for aroma.

Both brews will be cooled and fermented with Youngs Lager yeast at 20 degrees for 10 days. After the 10 days (depending on a suitable SG):

o Batch One will be racked into a second FV, chilled in the Brew Fridge at 1 degree for seven days, syphoned off into a Bottling Bucket, primed with sugar at a rate of 3g/litre, transferred to MKs and put on a garage shelf to carbonate and condition for a minimum of 10 weeks.

o Batch Two will be racked into a second FV, chilled in the Brew Fridge at 10 degrees for a minimum of 10 weeks, syphoned off into MKs, primed with sugar at the rate of 3g/litre, returned to the Brew Fridge at 20 degrees for two weeks in order to carbonate and then conditioned on a garage shelf for a further two weeks.

At this stage (mid-July 2017) I will be able to judge whether or not there is any difference in the two lagers! :thumb:

I appreciate that:

a) MKs are not ideal for lagers, but I will have run out of bottles by this time and won't have any alternative.

b) The 3g/litre of priming sugar is conservative for a lager but i) MKs don't like a lot of pressure and ii) The Vienna Lager style calls for "moderate" carbonation.

So, Plan C is "Go!" starting next Wednesday.

Many thanks for all comments! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 
How much yeast do you get in a pack? I brewed a Lager last March without temp control and a bit too warm and its now finally really good and to style. Long time to wait but you might be interested in checking out the Crossmyloof yeast's. They do a Cali common and Kolsch which say 17c to 22c. I am doing my Kolsch at 15c and it went nuts so will probably go down to 12c no problem with 2 packs and its really cheap. Or you could do like me build up a massive starter from WLP830 over 4 days and then freeze it. Dont do that unless you enjoy swearing! :doh:
 
How much yeast do you get in a pack? I brewed a Lager last March without temp control and a bit too warm and its now finally really good and to style. Long time to wait but you might be interested in checking out the Crossmyloof yeast's. They do a Cali common and Kolsch which say 17c to 22c. I am doing my Kolsch at 15c and it went nuts so will probably go down to 12c no problem with 2 packs and its really cheap. Or you could do like me build up a massive starter from WLP830 over 4 days and then freeze it. Dont do that unless you enjoy swearing! :doh:

It's only 5g in the Youngs Lager Yeast Pack ... :doh:

... but I have two packs per brew lined up! :thumb:

Last year I had no problems just rehydrating the 5g, pitching it at 23 degrees and fermenting at 21 degrees.

The Youngs Lager yeast is rated down to 10 degrees and by the time I start Batch Two I will have plenty of yeast trub from Batch One if anything goes **** up! :thumb:

BTW I spend most of my time swearing; mainly at my own stupidity! :lol: :lol:
 
BTW I spend most of my time swearing; mainly at my own stupidity! :lol: :lol:

Perhaps we are related then or share some of the same genes.:whistle:
Best of luck with your brew. My Black Lager has a homebrew twang which i hope will fade with some time in the garage. Tasted very nice before bottling so that may just be down to the priming sugar.
 
I would highly recommend the crossmyloof Kolsch yeast for a Lager type beer. I had a bottle last night straight from the airing cupboard (90 mins in freezer) brewed on the 21st Feb. I fermented this at 15c with 2 packs of yeast, very cheap at around 75p a pack. I did a diacetyl rest and cold crashed for a few days but thats it. Super easy beer and its a a cheap brew. Brewed a hoppy version of it a few days ago.
 
After fourteen days, Batch One fermented out to an FG of 1.009 and is now carbonating in the fridge in 4 x 5litre MKs and 5 x 500ml bottles (all primed at a rate of 3g per litre). The plan is to carbonate them at 20 degrees for 6 days, Cold Crash them to 1 degree for 5 days and then leave them on the shelf to condition.

Batch Two is underway!

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67659&page=7

... and going "glub-glub" at regular intervals!

The plan for this batch is to let it ferment for 11 days, transfer it to a second FV to ferment out in the fridge for 10 weeks at 10 degrees. It will then be transferred to a PB, allowed to carbonate for two weeks and then removed to the shelves to condition for a further two weeks.

I have attempted to make both batches identical up to the time that they complete the first stage of fermentation and "Tasting Comparison Day" will be somewhere around the end of July, to even out the two weeks difference at the start.

The first of the Vienna Lager brews started life in mid-March, so maybe this is why "patience" is considered to be a virtue in brewing? :lol: :lol:
 

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