Generating O2 from H2O2

I'm thinking about pure oxygen for starters, perhaps for beer also, but as I'm just starting out and live in a remote area, I don't have an oxygen tank and all the bitz. I'm considering using food grade dilute hydrogen peroxide 6% (20vols), which is cheaply available on ebay, to generate oxygen instead.

Basically pour some into a bottle, flip in some raw potato to provide suitable enzymes for the breakdown, and pure oxygen will bubble out. Seal the bottle except for a tube to channel it into my starter. Done.

Thoughts?

Cheers.


P.S.
Incase anyone sees this and, like me, is dumb enough to seriously consider it, read on...

Safety:
Hydrogen peroxide is not a safe or stable substance. It slowly breaks down into water and oxygen. If it's in a sealed container over time, this can make it spray out when the bottle is opened. This could potentially blind you: it's happened to people before, or I suppose the bottle could explode.

Best stored in the fridge, check pressure before opening by squeezing the bottle. Release pressure periodically. Better still don't store any at all for long.

It loses viability anyway if stored for too long so use it relatively quickly then get rid of the rest. It isn't expensive.

6% is what's used to generate oxygen in school chemistry experiments (where a trained technician handles storage) and it is considered an irritant at that concentration. You can buy up to 12% on ebay, but I wouldn't. See above. I may be being dramatic, but better safe than sorry. Also once you have generated all the oxygen you need, any extra is a waste so why buy more concentrated? It doesn't keep for long.

Other catalysts work faster than potato enzymes, specifically manganese dioxide, which is way too fast and raw liver, which is gross, but faster isn't necessary or desired.

Only use food grade hydrogen peroxide as other grades have other chemicals mixed in.

Suitable eye protection is advisable.
Have an eye wash plan.


I don't consider this to be very dangerous for me at 6% because I handle this stuff in work, but there is risk, especially at higher concentrations.

You are responsible for your own safety, if you don't know what you are doing, don't do it - you were warned.

Speaking as a chemist, I think this is a great idea. Put through a diffusion stone then you could control the exact the amount of O2 entering the wort by choosing the amount of H2O2 solution to add.

Thanks,

So, ballpark figure, leave it in the wort for a couple of minutes? Was just going to order a small bottle, use the whole lot and regulate oxygenation by time. But volume is a good idea if I wanted to save some for later.

I figure with the starter a diffusion stone won't be necessary, just flood the vessel with oxygen, put tinfoil over it and leave it on a stir plate.

How do you sanitise a diffusion stone?

Yeah, that would work. I think the only way to sanitise a diffusion stone is to boil it.

Love the appliance of science, but this does sound a bit OTT for a starter. A good shake at the beginning should be enough.

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Sadfield said:

Love the appliance of science, but this does sound a bit OTT for a starter. A good shake at the beginning should be enough.

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Probably, but i'm quite excited about the potato science. A bottle should be enough for a starter (for fun and testing) and a brew (for better beer, hopefully).

I kinda get it, although sounds too risky for me with my skill set.

I do purge my bottling bucket with co2 before transferring beer into it. using 16g c02 cartridge and a bike pump :grin:

It probably is for a starter, Chris White thinks that the best option is the stir plate:

If you have pure oxygen handy, you can add a dose of oxygen to your starter at the beginning. You will get far healthier yeast and far more yeast growth if you provide a small, continuous source of oxygen throughout the process. Oxygen is critical to yeast growth, and not providing any oxygen to the yeast can have a long-term negative impact on yeast health. Yeast use oxygen to synthesize unsaturated fatty acids and sterols, which are critical to creating a healthy cell membrane and good cell growth. With oxygen present, yeast grow rapidly. With no oxygen, yeast grow far more slowly and reach a lower total mass of cells. There are several ways to add oxygen: intermittent shaking, continuous shaking, a stir plate, pure oxygen, or an air pump with a sterile filter. If you have a stir plate, that is perhaps the most effective method. A stir plate provides good gas exchange, keeps the yeast in suspension and drives off carbon dioxide, all of which increase yeast growth (around two to three times as much yeast as a nonstirred starter) and improve yeast health. However, there are two things to be aware of when using a stir plate. The first is that some stir plates can generate enough heat to push the starter into a temperature range that is detrimental to the yeast, especially if used in a warm environment. One small stir plate we tested added 5° F (3° C) to the ambient temperature, so you will want to account for this bump in temperature when making a starter. The second thing to be aware of is that the stir plate’s action of drawing air into the liquid can cause the temperature of the starter to mirror changes in the temperature of the surrounding air. Large temperature fluctuations in the room will result in large fluctuations in the starter temperature, and large swings in starter temperature cause less than stellar results.

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On the other hand, using this with a diffusion stone sounds like a great way to get the right O2 level into a high gravity wort before pitching.

dad_of_jon said:

I kinda get it, although sounds too risky for me with my skill set.

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Its a bit like putting grated potato into potentially fizzy bleach, if you stick to 6% (also called 20 vol) it should be safe enough. Unlike coke however, it will keep releasing gas when the lid is on causing increasing pressure, so just don't store it too long. The release of gas is very slow without a catalyst, hence the spuds, so its not like its gonna go off in your hand. Unless of course you managed to contaminate it with a little catalyst in the bottle by accident (blood would do it)! I might make a video if its successful.

the '20vol' thing means that it produces 20 liters of oxygen per 1 liter of liquid.

dad_of_jon said:

I do purge my bottling bucket with co2 before transferring beer into it. using 16g c02 cartridge and a bike pump :grin:

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Sounds interesting, how, what is the bike pump for?

IainM said:

It probably is for a starter, Chris White thinks that the best option is the stir plate:



On the other hand, using this with a diffusion stone sounds like a great way to get the right O2 level into a high gravity wort before pitching.

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Cool.

What about a lower gravity wort? When does it become unnecessary/ detrimental?

iamthefly said:

Cool.

What about a lower gravity wort? When does it become unnecessary/ detrimental?

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Like most things in homebrewing, there isn't a hard cutoff between high gravity and low gravity. The idea is that higher gravity worts have a triple-whammy: they need more yeast to ferment, they stress the yeast more, and they don't absorb as much oxygen when aerating. For this reason, some brewers recommend doing a second aeration six hours after pitching when doing barley wine or imperial stout. If you can use pure oxygen instead of air, however, you can get just the right amount into the wort before pitching.