Black IPA

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I create my recipes and order my supplies using Brewtoad. Having received my hops I found them all a bit lower in AA's. When creating IPA recipes I shoot for 100+ IBU's as the ones I've made just don't seem as flavorful as most commercial varieties. Maybe this is in part due to a miscalculation of the effects of top off water.

Does using LME at flameout, and therefor a part of my "top off", does this impact my IBU's as plain water does?

I've read a bit about a whirlpool and intend on trying it this time. How critical is it to get the wort temp to 180*? And what temp does it need to be held above, and how critical is that?

My IBU's had been estimated to be 99 but would have dropped into the mid 80's so I decided to move my 7 min hop addition to 14 mins and not do a proper aroma addition as the whirlpool and dry hop, which brings the estimated IBU's to 104!

Here's my 5.5 gal partial mash/partial boil recipe. I start with 5.5 gals of treated strike water that I'll use to mash (~1.5 qts/lb) and sparge (~2 gals) with and use the remainder to dunk my BIAB grain bag in prior to sparging. I don't really account for grain absorption and my boil off is ball park (15%). I also account my pint glass of rehydrating yeast as top off too. Once wort is poured into the fermenting bucket that is marked (MoreBeer's) I usually have ~4.8-5 gals) after I've added the LME too (~1 qt for 3-4 lbs?).

4 lbs ultralight LME (FO)
3.75 lbs 2-row
1 lb crystal 90
1 lb flaked barley
0.5 lb midnight wheat
2 oz Briess chocolate
0.5 oz Columbus (14.3%) @ 70 mins
0.5 oz Columbus & 2 oz Centennial (9%) @ 21/14 mins/WP
2 oz Centennial for 7 day dry hop
US-05

1.056/1.011
5.9% ABV
104 IBU's
29 SRM

I have very large tea baskets that I'll be using for whirlpooling and dry hopping. They are awesome for the task! They look to hold about a coffee cup's worth of stuff, and they work well for "dry peppering" with sliced jalapeños too!

Has anyone done a similar hop schedule? I've never foregone the aroma addition so as to get a fuller impact in the flavor department, which to me seems like a good idea as some aroma will certainly come through from the WP and dry hop.

I do have a small stash of hops and had considered using some Cascade, Centennial, or Columbus, but my idea of moving the aroma to a flavor addition just seemed better and 10 0z of hops seemed plenty.

I'll need to go back through and reread all that's been said about whirlpooling, but if I recall properly it needs to be done for 20-30 mins. Do I want to swirl the hop basket or stir the wort? Is it more about just keeping the basket moving or does swirling really make the difference?

As a side note I've decided to treat my water more like I was brewing a dark amber beer and not a dark beer as I'm unsure that Midnight Wheat really adds enough have it considered a dark beer.

I've been directed to Brewer's Friend's advanced water calculator. I'm not sure what RO/distilled water looks like and so I left the input empty. It shows a pH of 8 this way. This is what I intend to do:

20% dilution of filtered tap water, which begins with Ca 38, Mg 21, SO 25, Na 22, Cl 37, HC) 192. I'm adding 4.5g gypsum, 0.7g epsom, and 1.8g salt to get:

Ca 81
Mg 20
Na 52
Cl 82
SO 154
HCO 58
alk 127
pH 5.44

Does any of this sound off?
 
As it turns out I order 8 two oz packs of Centennial hops instead of 8 oz total. I'll toss in an extra 2 oz for the whirlpool and also for the dry hop. Maybe this will be the hop monster I've been trying to brew up!

Do you guys know what a whirlpool is? If I'm not mistaken it's also called a hop stand, and maybe something else.
 
Think the reason you haven't got much response is because your making an unsual beer (for us in the uk anyway), although we do get cascadian dark ale/black ipa over here there not hugely common - your going to see maybe one on the shelves of a large supermarket's ale aisle.
Plus your using some exotic ingredients (again to us in the uk) there rodwha. Yes, we can get most of them (Midnight wheat anyone?) from online shops if we really want but I bet they're cheaper and much more easily available other there in the US.

Was brewing today so have'nt got around to asking - 1 pint of rehydrating yeast water? I think your only supposed to do 10 x weight in ml - admittedly I don't stick to this but I definately don't make up a pint's worth
 
I wondered if it being uncommon was the main reason I hadn't had a response. I'm surprised you get them there. They aren't really common here.

Available ingredients and their cost is why I've mostly made American beers so I certainly understand. There are some British and a few German beers I just need to make though!

I actually don't fill my cup up to a pint, but account for it nonetheless. I don't get too technical, though I do try to account for things. As long as I'm in the ballpark I feel good enough about it, though I do like to know numbers.

Wow! I checked the weight of water and 1 ounce is a bit much, and then the ~12 oz I've been using is way out there! I wonder why the small amount.
 
Regular American IPA's are actually quite popular here, it's just the black one's that aren't so much so.

Hop wise we have the full range available, native English as well as more 'exotic' American variates. I would say it's the more the grain that is a little more restricted (e.g. I've never noticed American 2 row or 6 row, as it's all marris otter here, but I guess if I looked hard enough I could may be find it).

Not sure why the small amount of re-hydration water, you'd think it would just mean the yeast would be more 'dilute'/in more suspension. I just put 'some' water in a small bowl and sprinkle the yeast in
 
IBUs don't equate to flavour, only to bitterness. For flavour you want hops late in the boil, after flame out (whirlpool/hop stand) and dry hop. American IPAs use a combination of these, with lots of hops. I would reduce the IBUs and up the late and dry hops.

Adding LME at the end shouldn't affect things much, but a lot of top up water will. Boil as much wort as you can.

For whirlpooling you really want the hops loose. This should maximise the oils released from the hops. You could use the tea ball for dry hopping, but don't pack them. People whirlpool or leave hops to stand after glamour at temperatures between 100C and 80 C.

Your water additions look reasonable, similar to mine, I have very soft water, but I'm not a water expert.
 
I was wrong about the volume. It seems 4 oz is about proper. That's what I tried tonight (unknowingly).

I'm at a loss for a true understanding of the IBU vs hop flavor spectrum. If I used 70 IBU's worth of hops at 20 mins with nothing else I wouldn't call it bitter at all. Where as if used at the 60 min mark instead I could see the bitterness spoken of. It's a strange thing to me as it doesn't seem to truly contribute to bitterness. But then my palate is not the most refined by any means.

I went from a more balanced hop schedule ( say 1 ounce at 60/20/5 mins and for a dry hop) to dropping the bittering addition amounts in favor of lumped up late additions. But even these haven't seemed to get me to what I find commercially.

I've stretched myself thin boiling 5.5 gals. I need to put a lid propped by a spoon on my pot to get a boil. The lid has holes as it's a tamale steamer base plate (not the proper term).

This is the first time I've done a whirlpool and used about 1/2 of the capacity and found the pelletized hops expanded and literally filled up the whole tea basket! I was surprised!
 
If you want to compare notes, here's the Black IPA I made recently:

4.9k Maris Otter; 300g of Carafa special 3 malt – mash for 60 minutes at 65c (but only add carafe special 3 for last 10 minutes)

Boil 90 minutes. Hops: start add 20g Galena; 20g Citra 10 mins from end; 30g Citra + 30g Amarillo at flame out; 3g Irish Moss

after 2 days dry hop with 30g Citra.
safale US-04 yeast

OG 0056; FG 0018
Est 5.1%
Bottled 1/1/15
Conditioned & drinkable by 15/1/15
 
4.5 oz of pellets only filled my tea basket half way. But when I removed it from the pot after whirlpooling it all expanded and completely filled it. I'm not so sure it allowed the wort to flow through it well and draw out the oils.

I'll get back to the comparison and hop chart. I'm short on time at the moment.
 
Beeston: Do you feel the quick steep of the carafa added the same amount of color had it mashed the whole time?

Can you not get any of the "special" dehusked types of carafa? They don't add quite so much roastyness. There's also the midnight wheat and blackprinz. Midnight wheat, I'm told, adds the least amount of roast. I did add a bit too much and got a little bit once.

I'm curious why the Irish moss. I don't bother with clarity when I get into the brown realm as it's hard to see through it anyway.
 
Well I haven't mashed the carafa3 for the full time before, so I don't have a beer to compare it to, but the beer I got is very dark. I'll open a bottle & post a pic later this evening so you can see. (Mashing for this period ensures you get the colour but little of the burn toffee/coffee flavours of the grain)

I hadn't heard of these other grains before; I am sure you could get similar results with others. I think the wheat would affect the mouth feel too much though, producing a hoppy porter rather than the thinner, black IPA I was after.

For the irish moss - I don't know. Habit I guess? And, again, a beer with more protein would likely feel thicker in the mouth, so less of a true IPA.
 
I've heard of dropping roasty grains in at the end, but I've not tried it. Especially not after finding a few that don't give a roasty profile (when used in small portions).

I tried making a black ale that was meant to taste like an amber but ended up being more like a schwarzbier because I used just a little too much. A BIPA was the inspiration as the first few I had didn't taste roasty as the color suggests. I wanted a deceptive beer.

What is a patersbier?
 
hi, a patersbier is a Belgian style beer, brewed with predominantly pilsner malts, noble hops and ale yeast (Belgian yeast, of course); they tend to be lower abv and light, because of the pilsner malts.
 
two pics of my Black IPA from last night

BlackIPA1.jpg


BlackIPA2.jpg
 
Nice looking beer! I'm guessing it lacks any hint of roast flavor, right?

I see you recently added honey IIPA. Care to share? I've only brewed honey wheats and honey blondes so far...
 
Thanks! Yes, there is no bitterness or the kinds of flavours associated with dark roast (coffee, chocolate, burnt caramel, etc), but the carafa does definitely add something; a kind of richness. The overwhelming flavours are from the hops, especially the citra.

Yes, I bottled the honey beer in December. It is still conditioning (perhaps because of its strength?). But here's the recipe I used:

Pale malts 5kg; amber malts 150g; mash 90 minutes;
7 litres sparge
On boil: full 340g jar of honey; 25g Challenger for 90 minutes; 80g Northdown for 15 minutes;
3g Irish Moss
safale US-04 yeast; ferment started 29.11
1 Dec : Dry hop 100g Challenger pellets, in hopbag

OG 0061; FG 0010
Est 6.8%
Bottled 5 Dec
 
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