And another one new to home brew (cider)

Hello all

I've just put my first batch of apples (ever) through the juicer and never made any home brew before....

It's in the brew bucket and settled in 4 layers:
Bits on the bottom
The apple juice
Some layer on top of that
A thick brown crust right on top.

So next I'm going to maybe sterilise and then add the yeast.

My questions are:

Should I remove any of the upper two layers on top of the juice before going any further or can I leave them?

Also, where is the best place to get glass bottles (and seals) from? I'm quite liking the idea of crown caps, are they easy to put on? Will a wine bottle blow a new cork off if I use those?

Thanks. :

Hi and welcome to the forum, not a cider maker myself so not much help but there are plenty of cider brewers here.

Hey mate. I can answer one of your questions. I have a stand capper and a small hand capper and I prefer the small hand capper. It's so much less hassle and so easy to use. I got it from Wilkinson for a tenner. I've never made cider using apples so I have no idea how to help you, sorry. I've only used kits or concentrate apple juice. I'm pretty sure there will be lots of advice coming your way in this post though. The guys here are excellent

As for bottles, I get them for £3.50 a dozen from a brew shop in Glasgow. In Wilkinson they're about £4 for six. Good luck mate

I just sieve my juice into the fv to remove the biggest pieces, the rest will slowly sink with the yeast and settle at the bottom of the fv. Crown caps are cheap and easy. A capping tool is about £10 and usually comes with 100 or so caps. Caps cost about 2p each, available online, Wilkos or lhbs. If you want to carbonate your cider I believe that the corks would slowly be pushed out of a standard wine bottle.

To get bottle just save up your empty beer/lager/cider bottles or ask around your friends, you should be able to get hold of plenty without much effort. You can buy them new but I don't see the point in spending money where you don't have to.

Happy brewing :)

Rhodgkins said:

If you want to carbonate your cider I believe that the corks would slowly be pushed out of a standard wine bottle.

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If you're lucky. If you're not, the bottle will explode.

The best ones to use are champagne, beer/cider or screw-top plastic fizzy drinks bottles.

Thanks for the replies, you got me thinking about when I was a kid. My Dad used to brew his own wine, he had it stacked on a rack high up in the garage and was working at his bench in there one Winter with the heater on. It must have warmed the wine a bit and it blew the corks off a couple, they bounced off his head just before the wine hit him too

I've got a Wilko not far from me so will buy some caps and a capper, if I can't gather enough bottles before my brew is ready I can get some bottles there too - I didn't realise those caps fitted most beer bottles. The swing top ones look great if not a little expensive too, but have got some bad reviews for breaking.
I've read that plastic ones aren't so good as they are porous.

I think I will scrape the top crust off and also whatever other layer is sitting on top of the juice too, I've tried mixing it in and it just keeps separating again - i'm guessing it's there because I've used a juicer and not a press and/or filtered it.
I'm a bit worried it might effect the yeast, but by removing it will remove some of the taste perhaps, at least it will take away some of the cloudyness too though....

You can apply a little science and check the gravity using a hydrometer, when the brew starts it should be around 1040 - 1050 this depends on how much sugar there is in the apples to start with, if its low then you can add a little sugar to bring up the SG by boiling some sugar in cold water until it is melted then adding it to the brew when it has cooled down. At the other end of the process when the fermentation has stopped or slowed down then check the SG again and if its around 1000 then it is ready to be racked into a clean fermenting vessel and off the pulp.

If you have a couple of 25L plastic buckets that fit inside each other then you can make yourself an apple press by putting the pulp into a muslin bag in one bucket on an upturned colander then putting the other bag on top of it half full of water so its pressing down on the bag in the lower bucket. You need to ensure that both buckets are clean and sterilized especially the bottom of the upper bucket. Doing this negates the need to ferment on the pulp thus making the later stages more easy to deal with.

LeithR said:

You can apply a little science and check the gravity using a hydrometer, when the brew starts it should be around 1040 - 1050 this depends on how much sugar there is in the apples to start with, if its low then you can add a little sugar to bring up the SG by boiling some sugar in cold water until it is melted then adding it to the brew when it has cooled down. At the other end of the process when the fermentation has stopped or slowed down then check the SG again and if its around 1000 then it is ready to be racked into a clean fermenting vessel and off the pulp.

If you have a couple of 25L plastic buckets that fit inside each other then you can make yourself an apple press by putting the pulp into a muslin bag in one bucket on an upturned colander then putting the other bag on top of it half full of water so its pressing down on the bag in the lower bucket. You need to ensure that both buckets are clean and sterilized especially the bottom of the upper bucket. Doing this negates the need to ferment on the pulp thus making the later stages more easy to deal with.

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Thanks for the advice, I was at about 1055 so added 500g of sugar to 10 - 15ltrs as I want it strong.
I'm wondering why the apples are pulped before pressing, presumably to make them easier to press?

I was thinking if I made a metal press strong enough at work (we do light engineering and have a small 10 ton press) I could just load it with apples and press the juice out....

Deltabrew said:

I was thinking if I made a metal press strong enough at work (we do light engineering and have a small 10 ton press) I could just load it with apples and press the juice out....

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Andrew Lea in "Craft Cider Making" says:
2ton jack: 60% yield
8ton jack: 70% yield
commercial press gives double PSI of 8 ton jack, yield 75%
Below 70% you'd think about rewetting the pomace and pressing it again

So, a 10ton jack would do quite nicely: with pulped apples! He reckons you don't get effect juice extraction if you don't mill first

oldbloke said:

Deltabrew said:

I was thinking if I made a metal press strong enough at work (we do light engineering and have a small 10 ton press) I could just load it with apples and press the juice out....

Click to expand...

Andrew Lea in "Craft Cider Making" says:
2ton jack: 60% yield
8ton jack: 70% yield
commercial press gives double PSI of 8 ton jack, yield 75%
Below 70% you'd think about rewetting the pomace and pressing it again

So, a 10ton jack would do quite nicely: with pulped apples! He reckons you don't get effect juice extraction if you don't mill first

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The amount of pressure exerted depends on how much you are pressing at once. Interesting about the milling though, the juicer I used was fast, but I think wasted a bit of juice as the pulp I threw out was quite heavy and I could wring it out more with my hands.

I have been reading Leas site, I take it his book is worth having?

Deltabrew said:

I have been reading Leas site, I take it his book is worth having?

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It has a bit more than is on the website, but not a vast amount. The publishers had a recent promo where it was going for 2.95p&p only, or I'd not have bothered. If you can get it cheap and you're seriously into craft cider, get it, otherwise his website is enough.

http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/press/press.html
This is a link to an American who wanted to know about pressing apples. he's a carpenter, or has the equipment, so built press, scratter etc, but this page is all about pressing without milling/scratting first - very informative. his other pages linked from it are good too.

As some one living in the West Country and making cider for some 40 years I find some of the information wrong may I suggest you visit Vigo web site and read cider making and buy the book by lomas and pooley at about £6 cider making cider on a small scale this is all the information you need not what some people have put on this form , I have just finished cider making and made 680 gls :

Thanks again for the replies.

Q. Can I put too much yeast in?
The sachet says enough for 23 litres, but I've only got about 15.

Steam brew said:

As some one living in the West Country and making cider for some 40 years I find some of the information wrong may I suggest you visit Vigo web site and read cider making and buy the book by lomas and pooley at about £6 cider making cider on a small scale this is all the information you need not what some people have put on this form , I have just finished cider making and made 680 gls :

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Perhaps you would like to enlighten us with your wisdom. :hmm:

indeed - if some advice on here is wrong, then we should be told what advice to ignore, and what the right advice should be.

it's only fair that you share your knowledge - that is what this forum is for after all.

I got a cheap PH tester for £8 delivered and it shows I have 3.3 which is good according to the guides I read.
I drained off just the clearest juice from the bucket into another and put my yeast in. I didn't bother with the Campden tabs, I know it's a risk, but I was careful to sterilize everything I used up until then - I even used a sink full of it and brushed, cleaned, rinsed every apple and cut off any damage before using them.
It must be doing the job anyhow, the brewbin lid is convex with pressure and there is a good crust forming on top. It seems ideal for the job as it's a good clip on seal that just lets the pressure leak out when it gets too much, but nothing can get in.

I drove by my cousins house where I got the apples from yesterday expecting the remainder to have blown off and be lost in the coarse undergrowth (it's overgrown with Ivy, brambles and nettles), but no, there is still half a trees worth up there going lovely and red - enough for about another 30ltrs and probably riper and sweeter than they were before. I'm telling myself I've found a tree with the perfect cider apple on it. They don't taste too sweet or too sour.

Last time I got up there and threw them onto some soft thick grass to get them down, I'm probably over-engineering it, but am thinking of taking a long length of plastic gutter up with me next time and rolling the apples down it to prevent any damage. They may be in boxes for a while before I can find time to process them so I think this is important. :hmm:

If possible I like to get the strimmer going and clear under the trees if the owners are happy, then I collect any wind falls that have been uncovered, put some tarps/ sheets down and give the tree a good shake.

I don't mind about bruising they all look the same when they come out of the scratter

Re-information on cider making, as I live in the westcountry and making cider for over 40 years I hope this small write up helps
( Cider can be made from any apples but the best cider is made using cider apples
There are four types (1) bittersweet
(2) bittersharp
(3) sweet
(4) sharp
Each variety comes in early mid and late so cider making went on for some time
We had 9 barrels holdIng 9000 gls in each we tested the apples in the orchard for the sugar content , all windfalls were collected and stored for some time in a tump
When we started cider making the first job was to wash the apples if it floats pulp if it sinks bin it some rot is good before pulping ( a juicer makes a mush no good ) we press using rack and cloth with the juice being stored in the barrels leaving to ferment with no yeast , leaving on the lees for 6 weeks then racked into a barrel that had been sterilised leaving for 4 weeks then placed in it final barrel until the apples are blended and bottled this will be about 5 months temp not important as we had no doors on the cider house .cookers and eating apples will make cider with adding chemicals a ph of between 3.2 and 3.7 and a og of 1060 will make a very drinkable cider , may I suggest you read Pooley and Lomax on cider making and uk cider and cider uk website hope this helps :

Of course you don't really have no yeast, what you have is a cider house coated with traces of all the yeast from all the cider that's ever been made there.
Most of us aren't that lucky.