Beer quality kit vs extract vs all grain

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simon12

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Just out of interest how good are the best kits compared to extract and all grain ? I have only done a cheap beer kit and all grain and found the kit is not quite as good as a good commercial beer and all grain is way better so how do the best kits and extract brews compare?
 
The freshest product will generally produce the best beer however all grain gives you more control of the final product. Fermentation and process is also critical in producing a commercial quality beer. What was wrong with the kit beer?
 
I've done 57 brews, started with kits then moved to Extract, but still do the occasional kit when I'm limited with time. None of the kits touch the quality of Extract, although some are much better than others, especially when they come with additional hops. In fact, I don't think the kits that claim to have the hops in with the malt in the can work - there's no substitute for real hops.

Having said that, if hops aren't a major ingredient then kits can be good e.g. Coopers Stout (which I still regularly brew) and the Brewferm Belgian ales.

But if it's real ale you're after, you can't beat Extract and AG - some of my Extract brews have been incredible and knocked spots off many beers available in pubs and at beer festivals.
 
Do you also see there being any difference in the quality of the finished product between a liquid malt extract or a dry one?
 
The freshest product will generally produce the best beer however all grain gives you more control of the final product. Fermentation and process is also critical in producing a commercial quality beer. What was wrong with the kit beer?

There was nothing wrong with the kit beer just not as good as ones in local pubs. Anyway just tasted my 4th all grain and this ones only on par with good commercial ones, I think the mistakes I made in earlier ones improved then massively. ie my 1st try I was 4l down and mash 3c higher than I intended (expected massive drop in mashtun but under 1c).
Anyone know how extract compares with all grain, is the beer just as good just less customisable or is it not as good generally?
 
If your have super fresh extract and a tight brewing process it would be very hard to tell it from an all grain beer brewed with the same recipe. Sophisticated palates will probably pick up a slight twang with lighter beers but with if you go darker that gets harder to find especially if you steep. Control and price were the reason which I switched but I still made some mighty fine extract beers :)
 
I've always brewed from single can kits, though I've now got a two can Munton's Gold Conkerwood in the FV.
So can someone explain what exactly `extract' brewing is compared to say `All grain'. I've looked on the forum and elsewhere but am none the wiser...
 
the kits have an extract thats been flavoured by hops.

extract brewing is when you buy the extract either dry dme, or liquid lme in tins very similar to the kit tins, just without any hop flavouring.

you can then add your own hop flavouring to taste to the extract and brew in a similar fashion to a kit. hops can be added by making a hop tea or adding hop oils,

extract brewing also benefits from a boil of the extract solution to achieve the hot break, this can be done at fairly high concentrations in a 8-10l stock pot,
the bigger the pot the better as at higher concentrations its easier to burn or scorch the wort, then add the prepared concentrated hopped solution to cold water in a sterile fv and wait till its at pitching temps..

it allows you to brew different beers by manipulating the hop additions without all the AG kit ;)

my 2ps worth is the kits on the shelf today allow you to brew beers 'as good as' an avarage commercial pint.. with ag beers you can generally brew beers that you will prefer to a commercial job, however the investment of labour time and enthusiasm may colour your palate ;) so wait till your pals comment on how much better than a pub pint yours are before you start believing it ;)
 
Thanks for this, Fil, not done anything beyond a mini extract plus hop addition to kits, not even steeping speciality grains, but this assessment seems entirely in line with my observations on the modern kits.

Done correctly at the right sort of temps and with proper sanitation, they are really quite good - much better than the ones available 30 years ago. Impressed especially by the 2 can kits I've done and also by the Coopers range - these make very good beer indeed.

Not done any of the newer kits with dry hop additions, as I think I can manage that step myself. (So there!)

:cheers:
 
Thanks Fil, that makes everything clear. Where would I find a basic extract recipe? Say for a basic English bitter. I prefer darker brews with lots of hops if that's any help.
 
Thanks Fil, that makes everything clear. Where would I find a basic extract recipe? Say for a basic English bitter. I prefer darker brews with lots of hops if that's any help.

Having not brewed an extract beer im not the best source but
look up any ag recipe and look at the hops used, for the colour simply select the correct type of malt extract, it comes in light medium and dark...
you can also steep specialty grains like crystal malt and black malt in liquor to extract the colour and some flavour.
but look here for more info relating to extract brews a whole list dedicated to it.
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=3


be warned tho you may find the outcome so appetising you will be tempted to taste a biab ag brew next

your standing at the top of a very slippery slope right now

pop onto amazon and see if you can peek into Dave Lines and Graham wheelers brewing books im pretty sure one of em gives extract and ag recipes for the beers listed side by side..
 
I've always brewed from single can kits, though I've now got a two can Munton's Gold Conkerwood in the FV.
So can someone explain what exactly `extract' brewing is compared to say `All grain'. I've looked on the forum and elsewhere but am none the wiser...

Brewing Extract you are bypassing the mashing process (converting starch into sugars) and this can drastically save you on time and equipment.

For best results when brewing with extract I would do the following:

  • Use the freshest extract possible (Liguid or Dry whatever is fresher)
  • If you can pass up on pre hopped extract do it and add hops
  • Treat an extract beer like an all grain beer and boil for 60-90min at full volume
  • Break up the extract additions thought the boil making sure everything is boiled for at least 15-20 minutes ( I recommend 25% at start, 75% at 20min left). This helps with the hop utilization as well prevents scorching/ caramelization.
  • When adding the extract kill the heat and move off the burner if your in the kitchen. You don't want burnt sugar or a boil over :)
 

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