1 can v 2 cans... No going back

pms67 · Sep 14, 2014

Hi guys.
Once You see/taste the difference between the 1 can kits and the 2 can kits it's hard to go back,whether it's doubling up a Coopers lager or brewing a premium Festival kit, the 1 can kit just tastes thinner ?
Don't get me wrong, you can still get away with disguising it with a choc load of hops,but deep down you know,you only have to swirl the glass to find out if you have enough malt extract in your beer.
I think that's why kits like Brewferm brew short batches.
If you can afford it (and I can't! But I will anyway) the more liquid malt extract the better.
As in life,you reap what you sow.
Cheers and thoughts welcome.: cheers:

Cwrw666 · Sep 15, 2014

I'm just about to bottle my first 2 can kit - Muntons gold conkerwood - after years and years of 1 can kits. Looking forward to seeing if there really is a difference.
Mind you having just this week had to suffer a can of John Smiths, a can of Newcastle Brown and a pint of draught bass, all I can say is thank God for 1 can kits!

Cwrw666 · Sep 15, 2014

Oh well, guess I won't be bottling it today - it's still at 1020 after 2 weeks in the FV. Never had this problem with a 1 can kit, ever. I've given it a stir and put it back in the airing cupboard...

Jonathan · Sep 15, 2014

I did a couple of one can kits, then did a Brewferm Triple (to 10l) and Wilko's Golden Ale (to 20l) - you can definitely taste the difference even at the bottling stage. In fact, the night I bottled up the Golden Ale, I drink half a pint and quite enjoyed it :-D

Hopping_Mad · Sep 15, 2014

I've done two one can kits! Results = average.

I'm currently experimenting with a Simply Pale Ale kit (1.8kg of LME) and some brew enhancer, but only as they were on offer.

I've even found that the kits that give you more than 3kg of LME, are that bit better than those that give 3kgs exactly!!!

1 can kits are a false economy if you like premium beer!

Slid · Sep 15, 2014

Had good results with Coopers lager plus 500g DME and 1kg sugar to 25L.

Any other good 1 can kits were all Coopers plus 1kg DME or brewed shorter. Since a 1.7kg can plus 1kg DME is about the same malt as 2.9kg LME kit, they should be roughly comparable.

Did a 1 can lager from Wilko with 500g DME and it has an inexplicably nasty aftertaste that I am at a loss to explain. Bottled 15 June.

Did the same Wilko lager doubled up and got good results - no aftertaste at all.

pms67 · Sep 15, 2014

Cwrw666 said:
Oh well, guess I won't be bottling it today - it's still at 1020 after 2 weeks in the FV. Never had this problem with a 1 can kit, ever. I've given it a stir and put it back in the airing cupboard...

Yeah,my first ever stuck brews on right now,the infamous Wherry :shock:

pms67 · Sep 15, 2014

Jonathan said:
I did a couple of one can kits, then did a Brewferm Triple (to 10l) and Wilko's Golden Ale (to 20l) - you can definitely taste the difference even at the bottling stage. In fact, the night I bottled up the Golden Ale, I drink half a pint and quite enjoyed it :-D

Brewferm Triples my next brew : cheers:

pms67 · Sep 15, 2014

Hopping_Mad said:
I've done two one can kits! Results = average.

I'm currently experimenting with a Simply Pale Ale kit (1.8kg of LME) and some brew enhancer, but only as they were on offer.

I've even found that the kits that give you more than 3kg of LME, are that bit better than those that give 3kgs exactly!!!

1 can kits are a false economy if you like premium beer!

I've never done a Buuldog kit mate,or a Milestone come to think of it.
Must get my finger out and stop brewing what I know :hat:

pms67 · Sep 15, 2014

Slid said:
Had good results with Coopers lager plus 500g DME and 1kg sugar to 25L.

Any other good 1 can kits were all Coopers plus 1kg DME or brewed shorter. Since a 1.7kg can plus 1kg DME is about the same malt as 2.9kg LME kit, they should be roughly comparable.

Did a 1 can lager from Wilko with 500g DME and it has an inexplicably nasty aftertaste that I am at a loss to explain. Bottled 15 June.

Did the same Wilko lager doubled up and got good results - no aftertaste at all.

Yeah forgot to add that to post mate,i have given the impression that I don't do he 1 can kits but Coopers with 1kg of dried spray malt is a favourite,especially with a load of dry hopping :drink:

Hopping_Mad · Sep 15, 2014

Bulldog Raja's Reward IPA I would recommend over their Four a Finger Jack US Pale Ale - can't get the bloody yeast to settle in the latter. Tastes nice though!

pms67 · Sep 15, 2014

Hopping_Mad said:
Bulldog Raja's Reward IPA I would recommend over their Four a Finger Jack US Pale Ale - can't get the bloody yeast to settle in the latter. Tastes nice though!

How does it compare to the Youngs APA mate ?
I have drunk the above but it's not a patch on their Amber Ale which might just be the best kit I have ever made :thumb:

Hopping_Mad · Sep 16, 2014

The Youngs Craft APA is the best Pale Ale I've had, and that is comparing to the Bulldog FFJ and Festival Landlords Finest and Golden Stag.

The Youngs Amber Ale is in a box looking at me saying 'brew me' right now!!! I'll get that on after my Simply Pale Ale 35p per bottle experiment has finished. If the AAA us half as good as a 3 month conditioned bottle of the APA, I'll be well chuffed!

Cwrw666 · Sep 17, 2014

Muntons Gold Conkerwood still stuck at 1020 after I gave it a stir. There is life in there as the bin lid was puffed up and there's a bit of froth on the surface but it still hasn't noticeably shifted. I have a feeling it's because the brew is a bit cooler than it should be even though it's in the airing cupboard where I brew all my beer (and never had a stuck brew before). So this morning I've obtained a heat mat for an aquarium which I've put under the FV & on top of a polystyrene tile, and wrapped a duvet round the FV as well.
Looking through the forum, stuck brews seem to be much more of a problem with 2 can kits than 1 can kits. Why? Is the yeast used more sensitive to temperature, or nutrients? lots of people seem to suggest adding yeast nutrient, but if that's the problem why isn't it in the damn kit to begin with?!
This could well be the first and last 2 can kit I do. Â£25 is a bit too expensive if I end up tipping it down the sink...

Slid · Sep 17, 2014

Cwrw666 said:
Looking through the forum, stuck brews seem to be much more of a problem with 2 can kits than 1 can kits. Why?

The members who do 2 can kits are more likely to own hydrometers and to use them. The suggestion that 2 can brews are more likely to stick than 1 can brews makes no sense to me.

The main reason for issues on Wherry is that it is an integral part of a very popular and cheaply marketed "entry" product with all the equipment needed for a first brew.

The kit instuctions (without exception) assume a room temperature that is actually uncomfortable to anyone under 75 years old, so it takes much longer to brew than "ready in 14 days". Paradoxically, brewing in FV for up to 4 weeks is going to give you better beer in the end, not worse.

Patience is almost always the No 2 rule in homebrew, after No 1 - sanitation.

pms67 · Sep 18, 2014

I had a result yesterday,the guy from Muntons called me back and is sending some enzyme? Through the post to kickstart my brew.
Fair play to them,bought it from Wilkos and dont have my receipt but it was no problem.

Cwrw666 · Sep 19, 2014

Light at the end of the tunnel - with the brew nicely warmed up my `stuck at 1020' has dropped to about 1014, so as I suspected it's a temperature thing.
In answer to Slid - there's a lot of difference between 1 and 2 can kits, other than the possibility of 1 can kits being done by inexperienced brewers. For a start, half the sugars in the brew are usually just T&L sucrose - readily fermentable by any old yeast, whereas the 2 can kits are all malt. So it's possible that the yeast can run out of readily available energy if the temperature is a bit low. Then there's the yeast - kit manufacturers never tell us what the yeast is, so it's possible that with an assumption that 1 can kits will be brewed by beginners that they include a more forgiving strain of yeast.
I've been brewing on and off for 40 years, wine, beer (always from 1 can kits) and never had a stuck fermentation. Ever. But I have this time with my first 2 can kit. Just look through this forum - lots of problems with stuck fermentations, and they don't seem to be 1 can kits!
Just saying, that's all...

Hopping_Mad · Sep 19, 2014

I've had a brew on 'go slow' and thrown yeast enzyme in and it's gone mental! Blew my FV lid off!!!!

It was a one can kit though!

All my best results, fermentation and results wise, have been keeping the temperature at a near constant in the middle of the target temperature range for the yeast used.

Too warm/fast and too cool/slow are the enemies of good beer!

It must be born in mind though that different yeast and different fermentables, even given constant conditions, will ferment out at different rates and different gravities. They are chosen to give different end results by people who know better than us!

Slid · Sep 20, 2014

Cwrw666 said:
In answer to Slid - there's a lot of difference between 1 and 2 can kits, other than the possibility of 1 can kits being done by inexperienced brewers. For a start, half the sugars in the brew are usually just T&L sucrose - readily fermentable by any old yeast, whereas the 2 can kits are all malt. So it's possible that the yeast can run out of readily available energy

if the temperature is a bit low.

Then there's the yeast - kit manufacturers never tell us what the yeast is, so it's possible that with an assumption that 1 can kits will be brewed by beginners that they include a more forgiving strain of yeast.
I've been brewing on and off for 40 years, wine, beer (always from 1 can kits) and never had a stuck fermentation. Ever. But I have this time with my first 2 can kit. Just look through this forum - lots of problems with stuck fermentations, and they don't seem to be 1 can kits!
Just saying, that's all...

There are some very interesting observations here and many thanks for introducing these. I have no issues at all with the suggestion that I have more to learn, BTW.

My understanding is that the Muntons made kits, which are pretty much everything except Brewferm and Coopers, use Nottingham yeast - please add refinements to this :hat:

Might be something in this line of thought. I always have added simple sugar to 2 can kits and would suggest that adding table sugar in small quantities might kick start a stuck ferment.

Are these stuck ferments on 2 can kits in brews with or without added simple sugars (Tate and Lyle, Dextrose etc)

Cwrw666 · Sep 22, 2014

I didn't use any sugar at all with mine.
Just checked it again - it's still at 1014/15 or thereabouts and I think it may have finished. Is it too high still to bottle? I tried a taste of a spoonfull and have to say it was very nice and didn't really taste sweet but lots of flavour and body.

1 can v 2 cans... No going back

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