Disappointed with kits is BIAB worth it?

I've been brewing kits on and off for a couple of years now, I've done 10-15 or so kits and despite some initial excitement I'm left feeling a little flat about the whole thing. I found it fairly easy to make drinkable beer with my first kit (a Wherry) and I was full of excitement about how much better things would get with refining my technique, but ultimately it all has the same basic taste. I've varied the water (tap water, treated tap water and various bottled varieties), built a beer fridge to precisely control temperature, experimented with hop additions, DME vs. sugar, etc. but ultimately, they all taste much the same. I can only conclude that that is the limitation with kit brews.

I'm now trying to decide if it's worth making the jump to BIAB or whether to stop throwing money at the problem and accept that home brew will never be as good as I can get from an established brewery. I may still make the occasional kit but I'm struggling for motivation at the moment when I know that for a little more money (and a lot less time) I can just buy something better.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has jumped from kits / extract to BIAB or AG as to whether the end result is worth it? I appreciate that half the joy with AG is going through the process, but I just don't have the time so if the end product isn't worth it I'd be better off buying beer online.

Ta,

Mickey

It sounds (and this is not a dig at yourself) that you arn't really a homebrew enthusiast. Iv moved from kits this year into BIAB and the difference is huge. So much so that I probably will never brew another kit due to the huge difference in quality. However, I also enjoy the brewing process and it is a genuine hobby. From ordering the grains, collecting them, then mashing and boiling, racking into secondary, bottling and cleaning up etc. Its probably around 15 hours of time to make a batch of 40 bottles (and there is no gaurentee that these beers are going to be as good as bought in the bottle, especially when starting out brewing.) So if you factor in all these things, and how important those 15 hours may be to your life, it may not actually be worth you brewing.

Again not having ago, but it seems to me that you are homebrewing for the cheap cost. Which was my motivation when i first started a couple of years back. However, it's not actually about the cheap beer now, because factoring in time and equipment etc its not much cheaper than buying a 2 quid bottle. However for me its about enjoying the process and experimenting and the different flavours and combinations of stuff. And im still far far away from brewing perfect beer. :-)

Thanks for the reply, but I think either you you misunderstand or I've explained poorly...

buzzharvey22 said:

It sounds (and this is not a dig at yourself) that you arn't really a homebrew enthusiast.

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Not so - I love the alchemy of making beer. I'm beginning to find kits a bit limiting, but ultimately if I'm just going to be making varying types of average beer I'm struggling to see the point. I really want to give BIAB a go, I just wanted to check with others who've already made the step up whether there was a marked improvement in the beer rather than just the added scope for experimentation. Don't misunderstand me - the greater scope for experimenting more has got me 70% hooked on the idea, I just want to know that there will be an improvement to the basic end product too.

buzzharvey22 said:

Again not having ago, but it seems to me that you are homebrewing for the cheap cost.

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Cost has nothing to do with it (within reason). I'm an engineer - I love the science, the precision of brewing. I'm also a real beer enthusiast so I love the range of styles and flavors. If cost was an issue I'd have chucked a couple of kettle elements in a FV and gone AG long ago. My only true constraint is time which is why I'm looking at BIAB rather than full AG. I feel like I've done what I can with kits to mediocre results. If BIAB gives me more control of flavour but the same mediocre result then I may try it one day. If it will help me produce a better quality beer, then bring it on! :drink:


What I'm getting at is that I love making beer. However, as a beer lover I really appreciate great quality beers - kits don't seem to be getting me there, I just want to know if BIAB will at least get me close.

buzzharvey22 said:

Iv moved from kits this year into BIAB and the difference is huge. So much so that I probably will never brew another kit due to the huge difference in quality.

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Now that's more what I was hoping to hear :p

buzzharvey22 said:

It sounds (and this is not a dig at yourself) that you arn't really a homebrew enthusiast. Iv moved from kits this year into BIAB and the difference is huge. So much so that I probably will never brew another kit due to the huge difference in quality. However, I also enjoy the brewing process and it is a genuine hobby. From ordering the grains, collecting them, then mashing and boiling, racking into secondary, bottling and cleaning up etc. Its probably around 15 hours of time to make a batch of 40 bottles (and there is no gaurentee that these beers are going to be as good as bought in the bottle, especially when starting out brewing.) So if you factor in all these things, and how important those 15 hours may be to your life, it may not actually be worth you brewing.

Again not having ago, but it seems to me that you are homebrewing for the cheap cost. Which was my motivation when i first started a couple of years back. However, it's not actually about the cheap beer now, because factoring in time and equipment etc its not much cheaper than buying a 2 quid bottle. However for me its about enjoying the process and experimenting and the different flavours and combinations of stuff. And im still far far away from brewing perfect beer. :-)

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15 hours, how come it takes you that long.....I can do 3 AG`s in 15hrs.It takes me 4hrs 15mins to do a brew, whilst Im brewing, I am bottling/kegging and cleaning

When I 1st went all grain my first thought was why can't they make beer this good commercially and now after 12 batches I really wonder why they can't make beer this good commercially. I made up my own simple recipes and with 1 exception (that ewas still OK) they have all been better than anything I have tasted in a pub. This was all with minimal knowledge and equipment (2x£5 kettle elements in a plastic bucket with a tap, a coolbox with tap and filter and a £34 wort chiller from ebay). As for time including cleaning it all I would say 6 ish hours plus the time a kit takes. I am not aware BIAB saves any time over all grain. You could also try extract, I never have so can't say how it compares but likely only adds just over an hour of time over a kit.

Kits and BIAB results are like the difference between Macdonalds and a 5 star hotel (I'm not knocking kits here you can make a decent pint with a kit, they definately have there place but the results between kits and AG are enormous) You can honestly make better beer than you get in your local

The down side of course is the time factor. I'm also a BIABer. I've never done 3 vessel AG but have read post where 3Vers have tried BIAB and have said that it's quicker to BIAB.

It's takes me about 5 1/2 hours to do a full lengh Maxi-BIAB. I don't have a wort chiller, if I did I could knock 40 mins or so of this time.

You could do say a regular 5-10 litre BIAB which would take you about 4 hours to make and also make a kit to keep stocks up - if time if a big factor for you

I think its a progressive thing and moving through the various techniques is not a bad idea as you get confident with each stage;

Kits - you get the basics of fermentation right - in my experience always have tasted a bit "funny" KIT - Basic fermentation starter kit

Extract - understand the boiling process and how hops/malt work together - I think this works brilliantly for very hoppy and fashionable beers like Way to Amarillo - where the dominant flavour is hops - quite consistent although in my experience less successful when trying to recreate a less hoppy brew. KIT - Bought a wort boiler and chiller

BIAB - where I am at now - a massive upgrade in flavour - really didnt think it would be as good as it is.KIT - added a mashing bag - obviously full mash tun is next step and a 3rd vessel.

"I know that for a little more money (and a lot less time) I can just buy something better."

Really? A little more money? 40 pints in a pub, depending where you live of course, will cost you somewhere around £120.
1 can kit - £16
2 can kit - £22

If you're disappointed in the taste of your homebrew kit beer it's probably because you haven't found a kit that suits your taste yet. I could give a list of really s**t pub beers that I've had the misfortune to find myself drinking, but on the other hand I could give a similar list of truly excellent pub beers.
Go BIAB by all means, but unless you actually use a recipe for a beer you're going to like, you're likely to be just as disappointed.
Personally I think my homebrew (all kits) is as good if not better than most pub beer, but maybe that's just me...

+1 for me
A kit like Youngs American Amber Ale is way better than most bought beers..
Takes around half an hour to brew and an hour to bottle
Sorted

Yes, yep, yeah, uhuh, definity, absolutely.

To clarify, yes I think there is an improvement to be had. I moved to BIAB some months ago and have, with minimal cost and equipment, brewed some (excuse the lack of humility) awesome beers; one of which (a big Golden Promise IPA) is my favourite beer ever. Well above any commercial brew. Go for it, you won't be disappointed, I've just brewed a tripel, a feat which I was told was fools errand. Which would hold its own against a trappist beer. (Don't tell the monks - there'll be a price on my head for that blasphemy!)

Cwrw666 said:

"I know that for a little more money (and a lot less time) I can just buy something better."

Really? A little more money? 40 pints in a pub, depending where you live of course, will cost you somewhere around £120.
1 can kit - £16
2 can kit - £22

..

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+1

Your never going to buy beer cheaper than you can make it. Think of all the duty/tax on alcohol plus profit needed to be made (however small) at every stage from the farmer growing the hops/grains to the publican pulling the pint/supermarket flogging you the bottle of beer

Rereading your OP it's not clear whether you have tried adding hop tea, dry hopping, steeping grains and adding the resultant liquid to your kit? Never tried this on a kit myself but I have read on forums that all or any combination of the three will massively improve a kit

Cooper have got some great receipes on their website on how to tweak kits

http://www.coopers.com.au/#/diy-beer/beer-recipes/overview/

Do it!

I went to 2 vessels rather than BIAB although the principles are the same. I find it hard to drink kit beers now. With kits you're limited by how many good kits there are and I simply couldn't make what I wanted with a kit. My beer is loads better now and I only started doing AG around the end of the summer.

Thanks guys, you've convinced me it's worth a go. I was initially planning to get a 40L urn for BIAB but may go down the brew bucket / kettle element route for now. It gives me an excuse to build more of my own equipment if nothing else :)

Re: cost - you're right, there is no way I can buy beer as cheap as I can make it myself, but this is not the main motivation for doing it. Mostly for me, it's about the taste and the chemistry / engineering of producing beer. (I refuse to use the word "craft" when talking about beer - massively overdone in these parts where all pubs are being overtaken by gastro pubs who serve "craft beers" - but that's a rant for another day)

I love beer and really want to make my own beer that I enjoy. For me the kits seem to all have the same underlying taste regardless of whether its Brewferm Grand Cru, Betterbrew Pilz or Landlord's finest. Don't misunderstand me, they are all good beers and I don't want to knock kits as they are perfectly drinkable, but I want to move onto something else that I can be proud of.

I think part of the problem is that I'm spoilt with being a member of a particularly fine local brewery. The beer is cheaper than a pub, but at £40 odd for 22pints, homebrew is by far a cheaper option.

Good point well made.
If you have the time then go for it.
Good luck,let us all know how it turns out.

My 2 pennyworth.
Go AG! It's not difficult and I brew beers superior to most pub beers and work out to around 30p per pint!

I bought a coolbox and a 30 Litre food grade plastic bucket, 2 Tesco value kettles for the elements and a few bits of copper tubing, connectors and ball valves.

It takes around 6 hours on and off to do a brewday but whilst the grain is mashing I get an hour nearly to do other stuff.
(I went shopping during the last mash)

Pub beers CAN be better than they are but if they were to condition the beer longer that's wasted money, hence the reason they don't do it.

Try a Sadlers beer if you can.
I've done their brewery tour and can vouch that their beers are as good as All Grain hombrew. (Yes I've put that the right way round)

Terry.

johnnyboy1965 said:

15 hours, how come it takes you that long.....I can do 3 AG`s in 15hrs.It takes me 4hrs 15mins to do a brew, whilst Im brewing, I am bottling/kegging and cleaning

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Yeah im about 4 hours or so for a biab but i dont use a wort chiller and chill over night. I meant in total for a brew. So thats including time spent dry hopping, racking into secondary sterilising bottles and bottling. Then time spent moving bottles around etc