Resilience of a brewed beer

The Homebrew Forum

Help Support The Homebrew Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Slid

Forum Friend
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
5,448
Reaction score
2,008
Location
Bolton
I am very careful now about avoiding drinking too much suspended yeast. For this reason, I stop pouring from the PET bottles I use (2L and 500ml) as soon as there is a noticable trail of yeast nearing the top.

Being both tight and curious, for some months now, my practice has been to pour the remaining bits into small (250ml) bottles, Which I keep in the fridge.

The little bottles fill up slow or fast, depending on the clarity of the beer and the the size of the PET bottles. They get whatever and when one fills, move onto another.

Every few weeks, the yeast has dropped out of most of these little bottles and looks fairly clear. So now, I decant each one into a clean (sterilised) little bottle, chucking the sediment in the bottom and inevitably mixing the whole lot up even further.

When some of them look pretty clear again, they get decanted into yet another bottle and the losses from chucking the yeast mean it all gets mixed up even more. Then they get primed and moved into the warm for a bit, chilled and then - I try them.

Here are the findings:

Beer, once brewed, is pretty resilient - I have chucked exactly one finished off 3/8ths of a pint bottle's worth.

Beer, when mixed, becomes no less drinkable, although not always aspirational, shall we say :hmm:.

Hence, no doubt, the development of the style known as Porter, first known as the Three Threads (I think).

Beer will continue to ferment at temps of 3C if in contact with yeast and mixing it up seems to put in contact yeasts that convert slightly different sugars. For instance, a Saison yeast can gobble up sugars from beer that the host yeast had given up on ages ago.

A few did not even need priming - very lively out of an unprimed bottle, despite being kept in the fridge from the time of first decanting.

If you want to cook with your beer, (a pot roast beef made with this is brilliant) and begrudge wasting "nice" beer - this is the way to go.

Have just finished off a very passable dark ale, with diverse (eclectic, even) flavours that I could never reproduce exactly. Porter, amber, pale, styles made with English hops.

Perhaps this strange mixing helps to sort of generally help with understanding the differences of style and the way that certain grains and hops seem to fit together.

You could try it if you have a large supply of 250ml bottles that once held lemonade.
 
I read the free download version of the Brew Your Own magazine (BYO) and there was an article about 'blending' beer. The next evening I found that one of my PBs was leaking gas so its content was flat but I had some nicely carbonated beer in bottles. I mixed the two and the result was very drinkable.

According to what I've read you are right that porter used the three threads method.

Beer IS resilient, put the ingredients together and it wants to make beer and I think it takes something major to stop that process.

In fact tonight I have been enjoying my first bottle of a batch where none of the equipment was sterilised. I did it as a test. The closest I got to sterilisation was fairy liquid. I had to silence the whispering demons whilst I was doing it, it didn't seem right, and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but it worked out OK.

Beer wants to happen :p
 
I think that's right, Twostage. The pyramid builders really needed that right angled triangle, but they managed to fuel their labourers with beer without Star San. Truly a wonder of the ancient world.
 
I think that's right, Twostage. The pyramid builders really needed that right angled triangle, but they managed to fuel their labourers with beer without Star San. Truly a wonder of the ancient world.

That was part of the thinking behind what I did - "it must be possible to brew beer without sterilisation because we've been doing it for thousands of years".

Doesn't half make it quicker too - need a spoon or funnel ? Just get it out.
 
I've never sterilised anything, just a pour of boiling water if I think it's necessary. Everything gets cleaned. So far I've yet to have anything that was obviously infected. I'm sure it will happen one day but I only do one gallon batches so it won't be a huge loss.

Edit: I also try to lean towards overpitching yeast-wise so that the dominant micro organism colony is the one I want growing in there.
 
Slid, so what are the consequences of drinking too much suspended yeast ? Other than perhaps a tendency for flatulence (!) are there other reasons you wish to avoid it ? I confess I am not too concerned if a little gets in the glass, unless I'm offering to a guest, in which case i keep it as clear as poss, as a Yokshireman I hate to waste anything, especially beer !!!
 
Slid, so what are the consequences of drinking too much suspended yeast ? Other than perhaps a tendency for flatulence (!) are there other reasons you wish to avoid it ? I confess I am not too concerned if a little gets in the glass, unless I'm offering to a guest, in which case i keep it as clear as poss, as a Yokshireman I hate to waste anything, especially beer !!!
Too much sediment in the glass can throw off the flavour a bit and make it hazy.

It can upset your stomach if you have too much too.
 
Slid, so what are the consequences of drinking too much suspended yeast ? Other than perhaps a tendency for flatulence (!) are there other reasons you wish to avoid it ? I confess I am not too concerned if a little gets in the glass, unless I'm offering to a guest, in which case i keep it as clear as poss, as a Yokshireman I hate to waste anything, especially beer !!!

Gout is caused by purines in the blood and purines are a by-product of anaerobic respiration (daughter doing A level Biology), hence brewers yeast is the principal source for a homebrewer.

Gout is very painful and worth avoiding.
 
Having persisted with chucking the fag ends of beer into small bottles, experimentally, I can confirm the ability of the Saison yeast to carry on fermenting and giving its very own signature to a mish-mash of eclectic dregs, even at very low temps.

Very interesting, the way that the Saison yeast is the dominant factor, whenever introduced.
 
Having persisted with chucking the fag ends of beer into small bottles, experimentally, I can confirm the ability of the Saison yeast to carry on fermenting and giving its very own signature to a mish-mash of eclectic dregs, even at very low temps.

Very interesting, the way that the Saison yeast is the dominant factor, whenever introduced.

It certainly is very unique in its charactistics, a bloke I work with likes to sample my home brews and has been impressed, but last week I was telling him about a saison and how its got a funky yeasty flavour.. He seemed to sort of turn his nose up.

I think Yeast flavors is a stigma attached to bad homebrew.

But Saison yeast just has such a powerful character, its even got its own aroma.
 
It certainly is very unique in its charactistics, a bloke I work with likes to sample my home brews and has been impressed, but last week I was telling him about a saison and how its got a funky yeasty flavour.. He seemed to sort of turn his nose up.

I think Yeast flavors is a stigma attached to bad homebrew.

But Saison yeast just has such a powerful character, its even got its own aroma.

It has indeed, its own aroma and flavour.

My suggestion is to try drinking Saison at Belgian Farmhouse cellar temps at Harvest Time (10-14C) and not fridge (3C)
 
On resilience; I keg most of my beer in those Youngs barrels with the plain caps (no co2 vlave). The beer is served through the priming pressure and if need be, if it gives out at half a barrel, I re-prime. About six weeks ago one gave out at about the last six litres so I just emptied it into bottles through a funnel and primed them crudely with sugar. Those turned out to be the best beer of that whole batch - really nice with the added piquancy of the sparkling character of bottled beer.
 
Strangely fascinating this thread. I love the points made about sterilisation and the ancients who brewed. I'm sure they would smile wryly at us and our uptight approach to cleanliness.
 
Strangely fascinating this thread. I love the points made about sterilisation and the ancients who brewed. I'm sure they would smile wryly at us and our uptight approach to cleanliness.

What the 'ancients' made and what we make today are very different. It was only during the middle ages that hops started to be used for beer for example. I have a book on stouts and porter which has a very well researched history section. The oringal porters/stouts would have be what we would consider 'infected' due to microbes in the barrels and would have tasted sour - a lambic porter if you like
 
What the 'ancients' made and what we make today are very different. It was only during the middle ages that hops started to be used for beer for example. I have a book on stouts and porter which has a very well researched history section. The oringal porters/stouts would have be what we would consider 'infected' due to microbes in the barrels and would have tasted sour - a lambic porter if you like

I'm sure you are dead on on the 'off taste' of medieval ale. They used wild yeasts, gleaned by leaving wort in fields to collect the spores, then added it to their ale. Beer using hops was an eighteenth century thing as I understand it. I got this information from that Ruth Goodman series about the Tudor Farm... might have been called Tudor Monastery Farm. There is a terrible copy of the BBC programme on Youtube with horrible distorted background music which is an artefact of a bad recording.
 
Beer using hops was an eighteenth century thing as I understand it..


In Greg hughes' book there a fantastic beer time line, entitiled a 'brief history of brewing' and it states:

"822 Abbot Adalhard from the Benedictine Monastrey in Corbie northern France writes a series of statutes covering the running of the monastry which includes gathering sufficient hops for making beer - the first documented link between hops an brewing"

"1412- The earliest record of hopped beer being brewed in Engand"

An interstesting entry - "1710- The use of bittering agents other than hops is banned by parliment in Englandto secure revenue for tax. As a result, hops become the dominant bittering agent inbeer throughout the western world"
 
What the 'ancients' made and what we make today are very different. It was only during the middle ages that hops started to be used for beer for example. I have a book on stouts and porter which has a very well researched history section. The oringal porters/stouts would have be what we would consider 'infected' due to microbes in the barrels and would have tasted sour - a lambic porter if you like

that sounds like a duchesse de Bourgogne to me :-)
 

Latest posts

Back
Top