Yeast starters

Tazmaniandevil · Jul 4, 2015

I'm fairly sure this has been covered before, but what's the general consensus re. yeast starters with beer? When I was making wine, I always started my yeast a day or so in advance, and fed it with brewing sugar.

Being new to this beer malarkey, and still to get started when my first kit arrives, I wondered whether the brew would benefit from an active yeast from day #1

Thanks for looking

LarryF · Jul 4, 2015

Yeast starters, this is one of those topics that will have as many opinions as the forum has members. If I'm re-pitching the yeast then it naturally gets a starter, if it's a first time use then I pitch it dry and I've never had a problem with it but I am leaning towards pre-hydrating my dry yeasts the more brews I do. I know there are many and varied methods of doing this but as Manse said recently I just want a simple, straight forward method that works. I think I've nailed it with re-pitching from a brew very recently bottled, the rest of it I'll just have to keep reading up on.

dad_of_jon · Jul 4, 2015

Tazmaniandevil said:
I'm fairly sure this has been covered before, but what's the general consensus re. yeast starters with beer? When I was making wine, I always started my yeast a day or so in advance, and fed it with brewing sugar.

Being new to this beer malarkey, and still to get started when my first kit arrives, I wondered whether the brew would benefit from an active yeast from day #1

Thanks for looking

I've generally used the sprinkle dry yeast onto wort as per fermentis instructions, but they also give instructions on rehydrating first and the john palmer interview on craigstube sort of persuaded me to re-hydrate! The video covers liquid yeast and if it's worth doing a starter or not.

if the kit comes with a 'generic' yeast i'd consider replacing it rather than :pray:

baggybill · Jul 4, 2015

Bit of a 'can of worms' that question.

IMHO a lot depends on the type of kit. If it's a one can kit, you're not going to benefit a great deal. Maybe re-hydrate 15 mins before hand but I tend to sprinkle dry as per instructions.

If it's an AG recipe kit and you're using a good dry or liquid yeast, then yes, it might be a good idea to take the time to get your yeast up for the job. I normally re-hydrate a quality dry yeast like Saf US-05 or Nottingham but I am an AG noob

Just make sure you're pitching 'enough' yeast for your brew - Google Mr Malty yeast calculator.

Good luck :drink:

LarryF · Jul 4, 2015

dad_of_jon said:
I've generally used the sprinkle dry yeast onto wort as per fermentis instructions, but they also give instructions on rehydrating first and the john palmer interview on craigstube sort of persuaded me to re-hydrate! The video covers liquid yeast and if it's worth doing a starter or not.

if the kit comes with a 'generic' yeast i'd consider replacing it rather than :pray:

dad, it's the John Palmer interview that's got me thinking that I need to pre-hydrate my dried yeast. It's funny, when I make bread I pre-hydrate my yeast with "hot water from the tap" as a matter of course but I don't check the temps beyond using my finger and my yeast always performs magnificently. When it comes to beer I'm suddenly taken all anorak and I'm second guessing everything. Then again they do say that man cannot live by bread alone, he obviously needs beer as well.

Niman · Jul 4, 2015

LarryF said:
dad, it's the John Palmer interview that's got me thinking that I need to pre-hydrate my dried yeast. It's funny, when I make bread I pre-hydrate my yeast with "hot water from the tap" as a matter of course but I don't check the temps beyond using my finger and my yeast always performs magnificently. When it comes to beer I'm suddenly taken all anorak and I'm second guessing everything. Then again they do say that man cannot live by bread alone, he obviously needs beer as well.

i can brew beer that is drinkable...

bread to me is a black art..bar pizza dough i can do that.

last attempt (granted i was drunk at the time) i made crusty baps....they looked great.....would have taken a chansaw to get through the damn things

LarryF · Jul 4, 2015

Niman said:
i can brew beer that is drinkable...

bread to me is a black art..bar pizza dough i can do that.

last attempt (granted i was drunk at the time) i made crusty baps....they looked great.....would have taken a chansaw to get through the damn things

,

Here's bread, if you do what she says to the letter you'll end up with really nice bread, yet another use for the beautiful yeast:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GWOJovFzWfw[/ame]

MyQul · Jul 4, 2015

Just so you're clear, you can't make a starter with dried yeast. If you do you essentially starve the yeast because putting a whole packet of yeast of yeast in 1L-2L of starter wort is not enough nutrients for it and you'll end up with an unhealthy yeast crop.

You need to rehydrate dried yeast. If you don't and just sprinkle it on top of the wort you can kill up to 50% of it and risk having a stuck fermentation

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/rehydrating-dry-yeast/

Niman · Jul 4, 2015

MyQul said:
Just so you're clear, you can't make a starter with dried yeast. If you do you essentially starve the yeast because putting a whole packet of yeast of yeast in 1L-2L of starter wort is not enough nutrients for it and you'll end up with an unhealthy yeast crop.

You need to rehydrate dried yeast. If you don't and just sprinkle it on top of the wort you can kill up to 50% of it and risk having a stuck fermentation

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/rehydrating-dry-yeast/

so a portion of dried yeast would be fine to make a starter?

MyQul · Jul 4, 2015

Yes and no. It's a bit of a faff but its possible.

1) Make up 1L-2L of starter wort
2) Pitch an appropriate amount of dried yeast (you'll need MrMalty yeast calculator). Your basically making a mini batch of beer minus the hops.
3) Ferment it out.
4) Decant beer off the yeast cake.
5) Harvest yeast.
6) Make another 1L-2L of starter wort
7) Pitch approx 150ml of harvested yeast into starter wort.
8)Pitch into beer either at high krausen or after it has fermented out.

As you can see it's far easier just to rehydrate the yeast

Niman · Jul 4, 2015

must say i bought the yeast book as well

prefer the hop one mind for non technical books they sure are

as i have upped my brewsize making the most of yeast makes sense now

i have harvested from yeast cake(workhorse) and made a starter was nice to see the pale layer grow and was fun to do but when it came down to it i bottled using it ..

meh next batch i really must split between dried and harvested

MyQul · Jul 4, 2015

There shouldn't be any difference between the dried and the harvested, unless of course there different strains. Although I have been told that the 3rd or 4th repitch is the "goldilocks zone" for repitching yeast

Niman · Jul 4, 2015

on the subject of yeast as an aside

i placed an order a few days ago for a few bits and pieces.

ordered 2 mangrove workhorse and 2 belgian ale yeasts,,,,both temp tolerant

any how got a call saying sorry only one workhorse left what would u like instead..i laughed and said surprise me....

lager yeast was a surprise

MyQul · Jul 4, 2015

Have got workhorse in a ordinary bitter, fermenting at the moment.

That's the crappest surprize ever, lager yeast in a heatwave when it's obvious your after temp tolerant yeast!

Niman · Jul 4, 2015

must say i did ask for it and i did chuckle..

ive only used workhorse once before and it didnt end well...though in fairness it stalled at 1.014 and i bottled it with dme which i hadnt done b4..

was a split batch the so4 0r 5 got bottled 3 weeks later and had dropped to 1.010

and seems fine

im actually drinking the workhorse result and its cloudy and nasty....and is a gusher to open....tastes ok(ish)

Tazmaniandevil · Jul 5, 2015

Thanks folks. I think for the time being I will simply stick to the manufacturer instructions, until I get a few drinkable brews under my belt.
Hopefully my first lager kit will be with me no later than mid-week. I ordered it on-line in my impatience, rather than wait until the weekend and nipping through to Glasgow for one.

MyQul · Jul 5, 2015

Niman said:
must say i did ask for it and i did chuckle..

ive only used workhorse once before and it didnt end well...though in fairness it stalled at 1.014 and i bottled it with dme which i hadnt done b4..

was a split batch the so4 0r 5 got bottled 3 weeks later and had dropped to 1.010

and seems fine

im actually drinking the workhorse result and its cloudy and nasty....and is a gusher to open....tastes ok(ish)

Both Mauribrew 514 and the Workhorse take AGES to clear.

Sandimas · Jul 5, 2015

MyQul said:
Although I have been told that the 3rd or 4th repitch is the "goldilocks zone" for repitching yeast

I was at a commercial brewery yesterday for an open day / tour, and they stated they re-pitch 16 time before going back to the original.

Whilst there, I picked up a bottle of their bottle-conditioned beer. Thinking of trying to re-use the yeast from the bottle by making up a starter, any tips? Not done this before but I've read Palmers book on this.

MyQul · Jul 5, 2015

darrellm said:
I was at a commercial brewery yesterday for an open day / tour, and they stated they re-pitch 16 time before going back to the original.

Whilst there, I picked up a bottle of their bottle-conditioned beer. Thinking of trying to re-use the yeast from the bottle by making up a starter, any tips? Not done this before but I've read Palmers book on this.

Which brewery was it?

Done this a couple of times myself

See my thread on how to do it

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53567

Sandimas · Jul 5, 2015

Thanks :-D

It's a Wye Valley Imperial Stout, picked it up yesterday at their open day and have a can of Coopers Stout that could do with using up (sat in the back of the cupboard since i went AG), so thought I'd give it a go.

Yeast starters

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