conditioning beer

The Homebrew Forum

Help Support The Homebrew Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Goodcat

New Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
3
Location
NULL
Hi, Mr Goodcat here, looking for opinions!
I've been reading that it is bad practice to go straight from the fermenting bin (after fermentation) to barrel or bottles.
Conditioning the beer does what?
I've always gone straight to barrel/bottle with out any danger of yeasty or other unwanted flavours.

Any thoughts? :confused:
 
I don't think the issue is with going from the fermenter to barrel/bottle, it's more to do with transferring as soon as fermentation is complete. After fermentation is complete the yeast will set about cleaning up any of the nasty by products of fermentation which happens much quicker in bulk which is why people recommend leaving it for two weeks. If you barrel all of a brew I think you'd get the same result but if you bottle quickly it'll take a lot longer to condition and clean up.
 
I think most people bottle or barrel straight from the FV, but it's good to leave it in there for a while and not bottle straight after fermentation has ceased. They say the yeast cleans up after itself - I don't know about that, but it at least allows the beer time to clear somewhat, or would you really prefer half an inch of sludge in the bottom of your bottles? I think the reason people don't transfer beer to another vessel to condition is that 1. it isn't necessary, and 2. it's a possible new source of an infection.
 
What do you bottle-from-FV types do about dry hopping and priming? Do you lob the hops into the FV and prime each bottle individually?

I'm eager to simplify my process, which currently involves moving the beer at least once....
 
I dry hop when the fermenting begins, sometimes in the middle of the ferment or near the end. I'm still undecided whether when you put them in is the best.
I mostly put them in right at the beginning of the ferment, then I can forget about it for a week.
I syphon with a piece of sterilised muslin tied to the pipe to stop too much gunk getting directly into the bottles.
Also started to use the primer droplets. Only 1, not 2 as the directions give as I find it can make certain beer recipes too lively.
So much easier than measuring out a teaspoon of sugar per bottle.
 
Why is it the most seemingly straightforward things turn out so complicated?

In a week or so I will be bottling some beer. I was planning on attaching a bottling stick to the tap, putting some sugar in each bottle and filling straight from the fermenting vessel.

Is there any reason why this is a bad idea?
 
Why is it the most seemingly straightforward things turn out so complicated?

In a week or so I will be bottling some beer. I was planning on attaching a bottling stick to the tap, putting some sugar in each bottle and filling straight from the fermenting vessel.

Is there any reason why this is a bad idea?

Nope.

and some more words so it is 10 characters :-D
 
Conditioning the beer does what?

Now that is a good question.

There is a difference between conditioning and getting beer into good condition also known as ageing.

Conditioning means getting it a bit fizzy, straight forward. In lager production they have conditioning tanks where it gets fizzy over a long period of time.

Getting it to condition/age I've yet to find anything really definitive. There is acceptance that if you leave beer in a bottle/barrel for a while it gets better and the higher the ABV the longer you leave it but I can't find anything that explains this.

Anyone ?
 
Now that is a good question.

There is a difference between conditioning and getting beer into good condition also known as ageing.

Conditioning means getting it a bit fizzy, straight forward. In lager production they have conditioning tanks where it gets fizzy over a long period of time.

Getting it to condition/age I've yet to find anything really definitive. There is acceptance that if you leave beer in a bottle/barrel for a while it gets better and the higher the ABV the longer you leave it but I can't find anything that explains this.

Anyone ?

Esters (fruit flavours in a way) being created by alcohol reacting with acids (carboxylic, mostly) in the beer.

https://scholar.google.co.uk/schola...ved=0CB8QgQMwAGoVChMI5fmO3-HvxgIVzO8UCh2URw-V
 
The links want me to pay $35 to read the articles.

A few years ago I could have got them for free as I worked at a university. Maybe one of my old colleagues will do me a favour :-P
 
The links want me to pay $35 to read the articles.

A few years ago I could have got them for free as I worked at a university. Maybe one of my old colleagues will do me a favour :-P

I didn't expect anyone to actually read them. Just thought it might help as a point of reference. :-D
 
In general harsher flavours mellow and they blend together.

I know this always comes back to the same subject but I found AG beers age/ condition quickly where you can drink them fresh.

I find extracts can take a little longer to age because they seem to possibly have some more twangs to iron out , this can be just a subtle sweetness.

I have no science behind this other than personal testing
 
What do you bottle-from-FV types do about dry hopping and priming? Do you lob the hops into the FV and prime each bottle individually?

I'm eager to simplify my process, which currently involves moving the beer at least once....
For dry hopping I put the hops in a muslin bag, saves mess. I also individually prime each bottle, meaning I don't need to move the beer from the FV until I am bottling directly from it.
 
Some good answers here :thumb:

Here’s a nice description by brewing scientists:

“Conditioning: Conditioning is the stage in the process that occurs after
primary fermentation and prior to packaging, in which the immature green
beer is converted into mature beer. An obligatory part of conditioning is
adjusting the carbonation level of the beer and thus the presence of CO2 in
beer, or its development, is referred to as ‘condition’ or ‘coming into
condition’, respectively. If the CO2 is derived from the action of yeast as in a
cask ale this is termed ‘natural’ or ‘cask conditioning‘ and is an example of
secondary fermentation. The process of conditioning traditional lager beers
by holding for a period of cold storage in the presence of yeast and
fermentable sugar is termed ‘lagering’, or ‘cold conditioning‘. and is another
example of secondary fermentation.

In some cases, beer in fermenter is held at a relatively high temperature after
the completion of primary fermentation. The object of this treatment is to ensure
that all available o-acetolactate is decarboxylated to diacetyl and the yeast has an
opportunity to reduce diacetyl to acetoin and butanediol (see Section 3.7.4.1).
Therefore, this phase may be referred to as a ‘diacetyl’ or ‘VDK stand/rest’. It may also, however, be termed warm conditioning or in German. Ruh storage. It is
another example of a secondary fermentation.

Apart from adjustment of carbonation, the conditioning process also involves
clarification by promoting precipitation of materials, which if not removed may
cause hazes in packaged beers. This is also accomplished by storage at low
temperature and the processes involved are purely physicochemical in nature. In
addition, flavour maturation may occur by venting undesirable volatile
components of beer to atmosphere and carbonation may be controlled by gas
sparging. None of these adjustments requires the presence of yeast cells. This
stage may also be referred to as cold conditioning, although, particularly in
America, it may be called ‘ageing’.”

Boulton & Quain (2006)
 
Now that is a good question.

There is a difference between conditioning and getting beer into good condition also known as ageing.

Conditioning means getting it a bit fizzy, straight forward. In lager production they have conditioning tanks where it gets fizzy over a long period of time.

Getting it to condition/age I've yet to find anything really definitive. There is acceptance that if you leave beer in a bottle/barrel for a while it gets better and the higher the ABV the longer you leave it but I can't find anything that explains this.

Anyone ?

There is a lot of yes and no surrounding this subject and a lot of it is opinionated, very little is ever supported by concrete evidence cause people always argue indifferently.

Conditioning doesn't meant 'getting it a bit fizzy' at all as typically the beer these days would be pumped to the conditioning tank through a filter to remove any yeast and any oxygen will have been removed by fermentation , this leads to the beer being pumped flat but relatively bright for a short spell maturing before being pumped with CO2 and heading off to the racking plant.

The other kind of conditioning is unfiltered in which the beer would be pumped a few degrees above gravity to conditioning tanks where it will continue fermentation before being passed on to the racking plant and being racked a couple of points above final to give us cask conditioned ale. Again, entirely different if ester, flavour and aroma profile.

Achieving condition again is an entirely different kettle of fish, there is no such thing as 'good' condition, only perfect condition which is when the beer is judged to be at its prime after a spell of mauration and spiling, ageing again is different as ageing refers to beers kept for long periods of time and becoming stale (aged).

Maturation is the period where the beer is handled and made ready for consumption at the peak of its profile, this profile consists of more than one element not limited to the alterations of flavour compounds given by the secondary fermentation of the yeast, the vessel the beer is being held in and the correct level of carbonation.

There is a lot when it comes to someone asking about conditioning beer as there are several varieties of the meaning.

I'm sure someone will disagree with me but I hope it helped give a little insight, not to bad mouth Twostages comments as he knows his stuff as well as the next man.

Cheers
 
John Palmer, How to Brew, covers this pretty well, read the following page and read through to the end of Chapter 8, which is just 4 or 5 short pages.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2-3.html

Yep, Sorry Clibit but I think these pages actually highlight the confusion over the word condition which changes meaning with context. Whilst he clearly outlines what is happening he refers to conditioning as the later stages of fermentation, carbonation and aging in bottles.

I think we need some kind of clear definition with associated words. For example for me if I was refer to secondary fermentation it would be what happens during carbonation - We bottle/keg which no matter how careful we are introduces O2(aeration), there is a fresh supply of fermentables and yeast activity kicks off again producing alcohol and CO2. In my book that is fermentation (for the second time).

In McMullans post he does two things :-

Confirms I have got condition and conditioning the wrong way round :-(

and describes what I have found in technical stuff I have found elsewhere which is conditioning is what manufacturers have to do to get the beer out of the door in a drinkable state. I can't find anything scientific that says why higher ABV beer takes longer to taste nice once in the bottle/barrel than lower. But that could be because I haven't found it yet.

Talking of words for stages we talk about the vigorous part of fermentation as high krausen. I was thinking that the later stages of fermentation which is sometimes referred to as the rest stage but the yeast isn't resting. Most of us refer to the yeast clearing up at this stage, processing the by products of initial fermentation. As we now have an Estonian on board how about we call this stage koristama which is Estonian for clear up (or it is according to google translate).
 
There is some confusion over terminology but I don't worry about it. What do we actually need to know? Beer never stops changing, from the moment you pitch yeast into wort. There are different ways to manage your beer in terms time, vessels, temperature etc. This will affect the beer you eventually drink to some extent. Find a system you are happy with. Try variations. I've settled on 2 to 3 weeks primary, longer if necessary, cold crash, bottling bucket and bottle.
 
Back
Top