Mash out.

The Homebrew Forum

Help Support The Homebrew Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TheRedDarren

Landlord.
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
1,192
Reaction score
447
I'm having problems conducting a mash out and can't figure out a good method.
I brew 23l batches so roughly 5/6 kg of grain and 12/15l of mash liquor.
After an hour I may lose a degree or two at most so I need to raise the temp from 65ish up to 75.
I first tried by adding 5l of boiling water but this only raised the temp a few degrees, and if I sparge on top of this with boiling liquor the temp very slowly rises to about 72/73 by the end of sparging.
But I'm really trying to get the mash out temp up to 75 at the beginning.

I thought about using my copper cooling coil as a heat exchange using water from the boiler set to 75 and using a small pump to circulate, but before I go out and buy a pump, has anyone tried this?
 
A lot of work to gain what?

I can look at it from the other end - I brew with a HERMS setup and at the end of mashing ramp the temperature of the HLT up to 76degrees and the mashtun just follows. So I've got the perfect arrangement? But, I'm being swayed by the "don't bother" crowd and wonder at the time saving (about 20-30 minutes) of "not bothering". What do I gain doing it? What about the worry that the higher temperature is extracting things I don't want? What do you gain adding all that boiling water? Isn't there more pressing adjustments to your system that doesn't require such an outlay of time and effort (and money)?

Or go ahead. Perhaps in a few months you too can doubt the wisdom of "mash out"?
 
The gain would hopefully be twofold.
At least in theory.
At the moment I am woefully inconsistent with my efficiency.
I range from 65%!! Up to about 89% with no idea why it swings so much.

As you well know this can have a knock on effect on the final brew as things like ibu and malt character get knocked out of balance from the recipe.

So I'm hoping for predictable efficiency and consistent brews by nailing my technique.

You're quite right, it's a lot of effort, but I'm hopeful it'll prove worthwhile.

Can you tell me about your herms system? I might start looking into it.
 
Agree with peebee. A mashout isn't essential. If you have a hassle free way to do it, fine. If not, don't worry. The main benefit, I think, is that it helps to remove the sugars, but a good sparge at 76C will do this. John Palmer says...

"Before the sweet wort is drained from the mash and the grain is rinsed (sparged) of the residual sugars, many brewers perform a mashout. Mashout is the term for raising the temperature of the mash to 170°F prior to lautering. This step stops all of the enzyme action (preserving your fermentable sugar profile) and makes the grainbed and wort more fluid. For most mashes with a ratio of 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grain, the mashout is not needed. The grainbed will be loose enough to flow well. For a thicker mash, or a mash composed of more than 25% of wheat or oats, a mashout may be needed to prevent a Set Mash/Stuck Sparge. This is when the grain bed plugs up and no liquid will flow through it. A mashout helps prevent this by making the sugars more fluid; like the difference between warm and cold honey. The mashout step can be done using external heat or by adding hot water according to the multi-rest infusion calculations. (See chapter 16.) A lot of homebrewers tend to skip the mashout step for most mashes with no consequences."
 
I sort of tried a mash out with my stout.. it seems a bit of faff trying to stir grains while (well in my case wrongly ) 27liters raises 10 degrees.

Like others say do you need to do it? If I was just mashing and doing a seperate sparge I wouldn't bother. I am not even sure if I will bother on my full biab..

I think consistency is what you're after because at the end of the day if you know you're going to get 65% everytime it is okay you can bung an extra 200 grams grain in..

Maybe try and do the same thing every time and see if you get consistent results and then try and work it from there
 
...
Can you tell me about your herms system? I might start looking into it.
Sure...
But, this isn't a short-term solution for your problems, more like a two-three year undertaking. You'd be very proud of having assembled something like it, but meanwhile?

I'm guessing you are fly-sparging to get 89% at times (apparently batch sparging wont ever give you this). So given that, just aim at being consistent with your mash preparation and sparging. Forget about "mash-out" entirely. Take note of Clibit's snippet from John Palmer.

As for my HERMS setup: Well it's actually a HERMS/RIMS hybrid and the piccie is just a basic outline (I'm writing up something elsewhere - work-in-progress). But like I said; a big undertaking!

Brewery Schematic - Basic.jpg
 
I'm sure I read you only need to mash out of your grain contains certain things which doesn't typically sparge well, isn't that the case? I know it's in john palmers book but I'm too lazy to got and get it and find the page. :lol:
 
I'm sure I read you only need to mash out of your grain contains certain things which doesn't typically sparge well, isn't that the case? I know it's in john palmers book but I'm too lazy to got and get it and find the page. :lol:

Don't have to go far, just scroll up to clibit's post (and quote from JP).
 
I've have tried that also, sparging and keeping the grain bed at 66. Still got poor efficiency though.
I really want to try this theory as I think it may be the key to efficient and consistent brewing.
 
I've have tried that also, sparging and keeping the grain bed at 66. Still got poor efficiency though.
I really want to try this theory as I think it may be the key to efficient and consistent brewing.

If you're getting poor efficiency have you considered milling your own grain??

Since I started doing that I get much better efficiency more consistently.

How is your setup agaiun? do you have a mash tun or do you have like a peco boiler.
 
Just out of interest. How do you sparge? I'm interested in the technique you use.

Sorry Rob, only just saw this.

My technique is to just connect a sparge arm and use water heated to 80*/90* which by the time it hits the grain bed is 70 ish. Keeping a few inches of water on top and running off at 500ml per minute (roughly).
Simple as that really.
Which is why I considered a mash out, to try and refine my method.

I also wondered if sparging with an open top was causing too much heat loss. If I could keep the MT covered whilst sparging it may help keep the temp high. I'll have to butcher MT lid though.
 
Sorry Rob, only just saw this.

My technique is to just connect a sparge arm and use water heated to 80*/90* which by the time it hits the grain bed is 70 ish. Keeping a few inches of water on top and running off at 500ml per minute (roughly).
Simple as that really.
Which is why I considered a mash out, to try and refine my method.

I also wondered if sparging with an open top was causing too much heat loss. If I could keep the MT covered whilst sparging it may help keep the temp high. I'll have to butcher MT lid though.

Mashing out wouldn't achieve anything much
 
I think the most likely explanation for the variable extraction rates you're getting is channelling. Something about the geometry of your mash tun or the way you have it set up is creating channels from the surface of your grain to the tap and some of the grain isn't getting washed.

Do you have some kind of perforated hose attached to the tap, with the grain loose in the Mash tun? or maybe, if there's a bag containing the grain it's resting on the bottom of the mash tun so that the liquor cannot flow properly? Ideally, you need a space between the bottom of the grain and the bottom of the mash tun so there's a space that liquor running through the grain can drain into before running out through the tap. A perforated false bottom of some kind would be ideal.
 
I got an igloo mash tun fitted with a bazooka, and I use the spinning sparge arm from the homebrew shop.
Like I said I keep a few inches of water on top of the grain bed.
Do you really think it could be channeling?
 
I got an igloo mash tun fitted with a bazooka, and I use the spinning sparge arm from the homebrew shop.
Like I said I keep a few inches of water on top of the grain bed.
Do you really think it could be channeling?

Yes, I think there could be channels from the surface to the tap. I think it's worth trying a false bottom to create a space for the grains to drain into.

This is all speculative but there's plenty of evidence if you do a quick search. Here, for example...
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=200663
 

Latest posts

Back
Top