Astringent beer!

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peebee

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A new one on me (and I've been brewing a while!). I've got a beer with a mouth puckering astringency quality.

Can't believe its my technique (what's changed?). So the usual ones of over-sparging, too hot a sparge, etc., extracting tannins just doesn't add up. But the yeast was new to me: "Safbrew Abbaye". And I've read "Belgium" yeasts can be responsible for producing "poly-phenols" like tannin? It certainly did unexpected things, like produce 7% alcohol in under two days and fermenting down to 1.006 (unheard of in my experience).

So I've attacked it with Gelatin finings (Kwikclear) and prepared some isinglass for casking (currently the beer is in the secondary - only a week old). My understanding is these protein based finings will precipitate out tannins and the like (like milk precipitates tannin in tea). Can only wait and see.

Anyone anything to add?
 
Nope, other than I am gonna have to get my dictionary out and find what some of those words mean ;-)
Good luck
 
The only thing I can add is it may be 'yeast bite' rather than tannins seeing as your using a new yeast. If the yeast is not very floccuant all that yeast floating around in the beer can give it a harsh taste. I've had it before with MJ workhorse yeast that I bottled too soon. Your doing the right thing I think to get any yeast out of suspension
 
I used to have a problem where my IPAs would come out really bitter and astringent - like licking concrete on a wet day. Turned out it was the water causing it. I did a test where I used non conditioned water, water I conditioned using the calculator on Jim's Beer Kit and Asda Smart Price water (which apparently is great for IPAs). The non conditioned beer came out like concrete, the latter two came out as the best beers I had brewed to date; spot on what I wanted.

Also, I just bottled a beer this weekend based on a Westmalle triple clone recipe. It spent 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in 2ndary and was also fermented with Safbrew Abbaye (previously I used T-58). I don't know how fast it fermented but finished at 1.010 which is lower than I thought. Smelt great but tasted like beer mixed with vodka - way too much phenol flavours. With T-58 it comes out of the fermentor really well and can drink almost instantly, but have to force myself not to as it gets better with age.

My recipe is here https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/archduke-franz-ferdinhandz if you want to compare.

I have no idea what temperature it fermented at, as with Belgian yeast this plays a big part. I left the carboy in my garage where it gets to ~20 in the day right now and probably single digits at night.
 
A week in the cask with all them fish guts and I don't seem to have a problem anymore. Guess it was the yeast, but whether it was the fish guts (oh. alright, the "isinglass") neutralising the astringency, or just doing what its supposed to and clearing the beer of muck, I'll never know.

Seems I'm not the first to be surprised by "Safbrew Abbaye", as in this...

...
Also, I just bottled a beer this weekend based on a Westmalle triple clone recipe. It spent 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in 2ndary and was also fermented with Safbrew Abbaye (previously I used T-58). I don't know how fast it fermented but finished at 1.010 which is lower than I thought. Smelt great but tasted like beer mixed with vodka - way too much phenol flavours. With T-58 it comes out of the fermentor really well and can drink almost instantly, but have to force myself not to as it gets better with age.
...

Think I'll try T-58 next time!
 
A week in the cask with all them fish guts and I don't seem to have a problem anymore. Guess it was the yeast, but whether it was the fish guts (oh. alright, the "isinglass") neutralising the astringency, or just doing what its supposed to and clearing the beer of muck, I'll never know.

Seems I'm not the first to be surprised by "Safbrew Abbaye", as in this...



Think I'll try T-58 next time!

not ever had bad astringency with Safbrew abbaye but have had massive blowouts with it, goes like a rocket - I'm using t-58 this time for a DIPA :-) and it appears to be behaving itself.
 
I left my batch for ~4 weeks in the bottle and astringent flavours gone. Strangely though there is no carbonation. Flavour profile is fantastic, a bit on the sweet side but perfect for a Belgian style dark beer. Mouthfeel is off though due to no carbonation. It's got colder recently so I reckon if I move a few bottles indoors it will speed up carbonation.
 
Casked for three weeks now. Clear as can be after all that attention, but as a result I'm too struggling with carbonation (although a long way from "no carbonation"). Undergone a number of flavour transformations along the way, I guess that's the way with this yeast.

So anyone tempted to try "Abbaye" needs to take a leap of faith and a good dose of patience, because it is not going to show much promise early on! And you'll need plenty of head-space in your fermenter.

But my brew was supposed to be an "Old Perculier" clone. I'd seen it suggested that OP was brewed with a Belgium "monastic" yeast; but it seems not with one like Abbaye! Not that I'm complaining, the yeast appears to have done (is doing) a very good job on this beer: perhaps it's even better than a successful cloning.
 
Casked for three weeks now. Clear as can be after all that attention, but as a result I'm too struggling with carbonation (although a long way from "no carbonation"). Undergone a number of flavour transformations along the way, I guess that's the way with this yeast.

So anyone tempted to try "Abbaye" needs to take a leap of faith and a good dose of patience, because it is not going to show much promise early on! And you'll need plenty of head-space in your fermenter.

But my brew was supposed to be an "Old Perculier" clone. I'd seen it suggested that OP was brewed with a Belgium "monastic" yeast; but it seems not with one like Abbaye! Not that I'm complaining, the yeast appears to have done (is doing) a very good job on this beer: perhaps it's even better than a successful cloning.

I second that - time is the best healer for home brew, and Belgian styles are best left for long periods of time.

Maybe they used Orval yeast? I think they use their own strain, but I know a few of the Trappist breweries "share" yeast. Orval, whilst it's a great beer, I find it to be the most plain out of the trappists. Anyway, it sounds like you're onto a winner there either way.
 
So, weirdest thing: I tried another bottle, perfectly carbed but still loads of phenol flavours, not sure what's going on there. I'll wait a week and try another.

In the meantime another beer I made about a week or two after this, a bit lower in ABV using t-58 has come out really well. Not the best comparison as it's a blonde beer with different ingredients but no off flavours from the yeast.
 

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