Planning an aromatic hop bomb..

So I brewed a beer with a friend recently that was very similar to this. The hop aroma was great, and it tastes really good, but I would have preferred it to be more bitter - we hit 20 IBU but I'm aiming for about 30 IBU.

It also got me wondering how much more delicious citrusy aroma and flavour I could squeeze in so I'm doubling the whirlpool and dry hops.

I love super hoppy beers (bitter or aromatic or both, you name it) and this might be a little over the top, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

Batch size 20 litres
IBU 32
ABV 5%
Estimate OG 1.047 Estimated FG 1.009
Yeast: Safale US-05

2.5kg DME
350g Caramalt
150g Carapils
150g Caragold

Hops
Magnum 12.5% (bittering only)
Simcoe 13.2%
Galaxy 13.8%
Citra 13.2%

Schedule
8g Magnum @ 60min
15g total - 5g each of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra @10min
18g total - 6g each of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra @5min
120g total - 40g each of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra @ Whirlpool (below 80C)
120g total - 40g each of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra @ Dry Hop 5 days

Too much? :lol:

The whirlpool and dry hops won't add a great deal in terms of flavour. If you want to increase the hop flavour you could look to hop burst, basically just add 1 or 2 grams of Magnum at the start to help prevent boil overs then add an extra round of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra at 15 mins (obviously making sure you still end up with the same overall IBUs). I've not actually tried it myself but I've read quite a bit about it and I will be giving it a go soon. Also, I think the whirlpool and dry hop quantities are too high...it won't have any negative effects but I don't think the beer would be significantly different (I could be wrong mind) if you halved the amounts...it'd certainly be cheaper. :lol:

I agree with Mick here. I recently did a large whirlpool addition at 90c for around ten minutes, and it didn't extract as much flavour as I had wanted.

For me, 30 IBUs is a bit low for a hoppy ale of that ABV. Personal preference, but I'd be shooting for at least 40.

I think you could up the 10/5 minute additions and add a flame-out addition too for more flavour (and aroma), and reduce the dry-hop slightly.

As I said though, all personal preference at the end of the day.

Galaxy hops... mmmm tasty. IIRC Simcoe is more aroma than bittering, same with Citra so i'd aim to up their contribution in the boil to get a little bit more in terms of IBU. That's my two cents, but then you know my predilection for finely bittered beers!

I was initially thinking 40 IBU, but changed my mind to 30 because I actually quite liked the 20 IBU beer I brewed with my friend (think Kona's Big Wave, but with more hops). With that beer this was the hop schedule:

5 g Galaxy 30 min
5 g Citra 30 min
5 g Citra 5 min
5 g Galaxy 5 min
30 g Citra Whirlpool at 80 °C for 30 mins
30 g Galaxy Whirlpool at 80 °C for 30 mins
30 g Citra Dry Hop 3 days
30 g Galaxy Dry Hop 3 days

The dry hops did actually impart a noticeable amount of flavour compared to samples tasted before.

I do realise that doubling the whirlpool and dry hops in my recipe is probably a bit OTT, but I'd rather go a step too far (you know, for science) and dial it back next time than keep wondering how much to bump things up by. Yea, the amount of hops going into it aren't cheap but I've budgeted for that - besides, experimenting is all part of the fun! Plus, I've just made myself a hop spider so this is the perfect time to test it out.

@rodabod - I thought common convention for whirlpools was around 20-30mins? I assume you were looking for some hop utilisation if you did it at 90C?

As I'm aiming for a Pale Ale rather than an IPA I'm trying to keep the bitterness ratio as such (around 0.7 for a Pale Ale) without the ABV being absurdly high as I want something a bit more sessionable than the last 7% IPA I brewed.

@DoctorMick - I've just done some more reading about hop bursting (it's not what I had thought) so taking into account what you and @Rodabod said I'll probably do the following after playing around with BrewersFriend.com

Thanks for the comments - aside from the ludicrous amounts of flameout and dry hops, I think the base recipe looks a lot better now!

Batch size 20 litres
IBU 38.25
ABV 5.66%
Estimate OG 1.053 Estimated FG 1.010
Bitterness Ratio: 0.72
Yeast: Safale US-05

2.85kg DME
350g Caramalt
150g Carapils
150g Caragold

Hops
Magnum 12.5% (bittering only)
Simcoe 13.2%
Galaxy 13.8%
Citra 13.2%

Schedule
2g Magnum @ 60min
9g total - 3g each of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra @15min
15g total - 5g each of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra @10min
45g total - 15g each of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra @5min
120g total - 40g each of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra @ Whirlpool (below 80C) for 30 mins
111g total - 37g each of Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra @ Dry Hop 5 days (the odd number is to use up the 100g hop packs I've bought because who wants 7g of odd hops lying around?)

ProjectBeer said:

I thought common convention for whirlpools was around 20-30mins? I assume you were looking for some hop utilisation if you did it at 90C?

Click to expand...

I think you're right about the typical duration. I read up a little on whirlpooling and extraction rates at different temperatures and decided to add the hops at 90c while it was still falling in temperature. They remained in the wort while I was chilling, but I have a fast heat exchanger system with a pump.

I think I should have steeped them for longer. Also, it partly proves that what you read in theory does not always add up in practice.

For these short steeping times, it probably makes a large difference if you use hop pellets as opposed to cones. Never mind the usual "10% extra efficiency with pellets". For a very short steep, cones might not even get properly soaked all the way through!

Updated recipe looks great to me. I'm about to use Galaxy for the first time this weekend.

Oh I'm using all pellets for that exact reason :)

I met one of the brewers from Stone Wood (Australian brewery trying to gain some foothold here in the UK) at the London Craft Beer Festival the other week and they do a Pacific Ale with nothing but Galaxy. It was delicious. The guy couldn't speak more highly of that hops and now neither can I :)

Funny, I have a friend in Australia who absolutely raves about Galaxy, hence me buying some.

The UK hop companies need to think about making some high Alpha hops (assuming the weather can provide). Even Germany are doing high Alpha aromatics now....

Admiral and Pilgrim are the English attempts at high alpha hops, around 14-15%. They re good hops, but I don't think our climate enables us to grow really aromatic hops that would compete with the American, Australian of even German hops available. This discussion has been had many times. If you grow those American varieties in England, and they have done that with Cascade, you don't get anything like the aromatic quality of the American grown hops. There are new hops like Jester which are a bit closer, apparently, but still not n the same league. Brewers Gold and Bramling Cross were developed in England nearly a hundred years ago by crossing English varieties with North American hops, but were considered too pungent by English brewers. Brewers Gold are now grown in Germany and not in England, and were ironically used later in the development of a lot of the high alpha/aroma American hops like Centennial, Nugget, Columbus, Millennium, Galena, Horizon, Magnum, Sorachi Ace, Sterling, Citra and Bravo. But the conditions these hops are grown in make a significant difference.

That's great info. Clibit. I've tried Jester brewed by (ironically) an American brewer as a single-hop ale and it was great.

I'd like to try some of the newer hops you suggested. To be absolutely honest, I actually thought Pilgrim and Admiral were old world hops! The name just isn't very jazzy, whereas Jester kind of is.

Found this handy:

http://www.britishhops.org.uk/british-hop-varieties/

Pilgrim isn't a jazzy hop, it's very English, but it has high alpha. Admiral is the nearest thing we have from England to a new world high alpha hop, it's pretty fruity, not harsh, a hop well worth trying in all English/American styles I reckon. But still not on a par with American high alpha hops. It's used in Devil's Backbone, though, if you have tried that at Wetherspoons.

They are trying to produce high aroma English hops to compete with the new world varieties, but at the same time are being realistic about what is possible. Olicana is another of the new aroma varieties of that ilk, but you never see it on sale to home brewers. I think it's a good thing that we get very different hops from different parts of the world. Some of my best beers have used English hops. I love the new world hops but i don't want them in everything.