Liquid Yeast Without a Starter

DoctorMick · Oct 2, 2015

So, it looks like I've left it too late to make a starter for my white labs liquid yeast before brewing over the weekend. The tube says it should be fine to just pitch assuming it has been kept in the right environment (which I'm going to assume it has). What's the likelihood of it all going horribly wrong if I don't make a starter?

ManseMasher · Oct 2, 2015

DoctorMick said:
So, it looks like I've left it too late to make a starter for my white labs liquid yeast before brewing over the weekend. The tube says it should be fine to just pitch assuming it has been kept in the right environment (which I'm going to assume it has). What's the likelihood of it all going horribly wrong if I don't make a starter?

I used WLP 566 pitched straight from the vial. IIRC the instructions for that particular yeast said starter not required unless SG was over 1070 (and the correct environment was stored in fridge until needed, then brought back up to room temp before pitching). Mine was less than 1070 so bunged it straight in, worked absolutely fine for me.

glynb · Oct 2, 2015

Yes, I pitch straight from the vial also, no problems here either.

clibit · Oct 2, 2015

"White Labs recommends making a starter if the Original Gravity is over 1.070, if the yeast is past its "Best Before" date, if you are pitching lager yeast at temperatures below 65F, or if a faster start is desired."

If it was me I'd make a starter if I could do so 12 hours or more before pitching, to minimise the risk of under-pitching, as an insurance policy and to get fermentation off to as good a start as possible.

nbpicklesno2 · Oct 2, 2015

The chances are that it'll be fine as long as its in date and has been kept well. I think that it would be good to make a starter, even at this late stage, as it would get things going straight away and ensure that the yeast was working when pitched.

DoctorMick · Oct 2, 2015

So does the starter not have to be finished fermenting before it can be used?

clibit · Oct 2, 2015

In my opinion it is better to get the yeast activity started before pitching than not, in the same way that dried yeast is re-hydrated before pitching. I'm not a yeast expert by any means though. When you are pitching active yeast, the starter needs to be all malt and as similar as possible to the wort you will pitch into, so that it has as little adaption to make as possible to the wort you are pitching into. This is less important when you allow the starter to completely ferment out, I believe. So make a starter with the same OG as the main wort.

MyQul · Oct 2, 2015

No, in fact some people recommend pitching at high krausen when the yeast is at it's absolute healthiest. I'm doing that tommorow

MyQul · Oct 2, 2015

clibit said:
When you are pitching active yeast, the starter needs to be all malt and as similar as possible to the wort you will pitch into, so that it has as little adaption to make as possible to the wort you are pitching into. This is less important when you allow the starter to completely ferment out, I believe. So make a starter with the same OG as the main wort.

That's interesting. I've never come across that before. I'm not going to do that. My starter will be 1.038 and my wort will be 1.052. Let's see what happens. I'm quite confident it'll be ok though

Covrich · Oct 2, 2015

I am about to embark on the liquid yeast and asked this same question.. I think in general like others said its okay if the gravity isn't too high.

Because I am brewing outside and there is a little more exposure I want the fermentation to be as quick and healthy as possible.

You brew with a GF right??? I would say you're probably okay

DoctorMick · Oct 2, 2015

Covrich said:
I am about to embark on the liquid yeast and asked this same question.. I think in general like others said its okay if the gravity isn't too high.

Because I am brewing outside and there is a little more exposure I want the fermentation to be as quick and healthy as possible.

You brew with a GF right??? I would say you're probably okay

I do. I think I'll chuck it straight in, mainly because I'm lazy! :-D

Bunglebrewsbeer · Oct 2, 2015

I used liquid yeast from the tube in my last brew. It only got down to about 1017 from 1053. I lobbed a dry yeast of similar strain in and it got down to 1008. I think if I use one again I'll try a starter. Plus never done one before.

ghb · Oct 2, 2015

I used a liquid yeast on tuesday's brew (1058 og and 20ÃÂ°c) and nowt happened. I had to bung in some dry today to get it started. It was still 3 days off it best before date therefore I've decided if I try it again I'll be making a starter and trying that as I'm too keen on the wort sat there for 2/3 days before I decide it needs a kick start

McMullan · Oct 8, 2015

I'd say always make a starter when using liquid yeast. Compared with other formats, the viability of liquid yeast seems to drop surprisingly quickly following packaging.

http://www.fungimag.com/spring-2014-articles-02/V7I1 LR 101Yeast23-27pdf.pdf

The further the vial/pack is from the production date, the lower the gravity of the starter wort. Though strain dependent, alcohol stresses yeast cells, especially if they're not at their best. When I use an old or out of date vial/pack (I have several due to unforeseen circumstances involving a step ladder, a chimney breast and a hammer drill :whistle:), I start with 500ml @ 1.020 and step up to 1L @ 1.040.

nbpicklesno2 · Oct 8, 2015

McMullan said:
http://www.fungimag.com/spring-2014-articles-02/V7I1 LR 101Yeast23-27pdf.pdfWhen I use an old or out of date vial/pack (I have several due to unforeseen circumstances involving a step ladder, a chimney breast and a hammer drill):whistle:

That sounds like an interesting story. Do tell.

Halfacrem · Oct 8, 2015

This is an interesting and, for me, confusing subject.

If the purpose of a starter is to create multiple more viable yeasties therefore promoting a more rigorous fermentation, how does this fit in with over pitching?

Covrich · Oct 8, 2015

Halfacrem said:
This is an interesting and, for me, confusing subject.

If the purpose of a starter is to create multiple more viable yeasties therefore promoting a more rigorous fermentation, how does this fit in with over pitching?

I don't think over pitching comes into it or from what I understand overpitching to the home brewer is very difficult thing to actually do.

Making the starter is actually with the intent of doing the opposite and not under pitching.. Using a vial or sachet of liquid yeast straight into the wort you are at risk of under pitching although many will claim they go fine..

Halfacrem · Oct 9, 2015

Covrich said:
I don't think over pitching comes into it or from what I understand overpitching to the home brewer is very difficult thing to actually do.

Making the starter is actually with the intent of doing the opposite and not under pitching.. Using a vial or sachet of liquid yeast straight into the wort you are at risk of under pitching although many will claim they go fine..

Reason I ask is, my next brew is an 11.5 litre batch of low abv ale (Greg Hughes Summer Ale). I've got a vial of White Labs WLP005 , which, I think would normally be pretty good for a 23 litre batch.

So, would there be any difference between making a half litre starter with, say, for example, half a vial, or just pitching the whole vial into the 11.5 litres in the fermenter?

I appreciate the starter is designed to get the yeasties prepared and awake to do a job straight away. In honesty I'm looking for a reason to just pitch the whole vial without having to do a 20 mile round trip to buy some DME :-P

McMullan · Oct 9, 2015

You could make some starter wort, if you had grains to spare. That's what I do. If the vial is fresh, and I was desperate to brew, I'd pitch the whole vial into your aerated 11.5L wort and give it a good stir twice a day for the first 48 hours. For your next brew, try making your own starter wort. It stores well in the freezer

Covrich · Oct 9, 2015

McMullan said:
You could make some starter wort, if you had grains to spare. That's what I do. If the vial is fresh, and I was desperate to brew, I'd pitch the whole vial into your aerated 11.5L wort and give it a good stir twice a day for the first 48 hours. For your next brew, try making your own starter wort. It stores well in the freezer

Read about that and thought about it as it would be much cheaper than dme (which to be fair I have bought for my first few goes at starters)

WHat do you do just mash teh grain and boil for 30 mins or so, cool divide up ont o tupperware, freeze, defrost + boil the amount on each starter??

Liquid Yeast Without a Starter

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