Beer tastes like vinegar

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jasonlee471

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Hi I've just started brewing and finished my first beer kit and onto my second, my first one was a Belgian dubbel which I bottled and kegged. At first they tasted nice with the bottles initially better, then the keg which then kept slowly changing flavour and became better, then the bottles began becoming really nice.

Then all of a sudden all the bottles starting tasting of vinegar and really unpleasant, at first I just thought it was the kits poor interpretation of Belgium beers until I realised something must be wrong. I began drinking the keg which tasted fine but quickly followed with the vinegar taste.

My question is what has caused this, is it sanitation ? or maybe oxygen getting in somehow? Due to it being my first brew I'm not sure what flavours they both produce

Thanks
 
Thanks that's really helpful just read like you said that it's probably both which isn't great, I took the lid off a couple of times just to see what everything looked like but not for long, surely that's not enough to introduce oxygen?
 
I'd seriously doubt if oxygenation would produce such a sudden and dramatic shift in character.
Also, the fact that both your bottled and kegged beer are having the same problem suggests that it's infection rather than a handling problem.
I'd guess that you have a secondary yeast or bacterium in there, and you need to rigorously sterilise your kit!
 
Hoppyland said:
I'd seriously doubt if oxygenation would produce such a sudden and dramatic shift in character.
Also, the fact that both your bottled and kegged beer are having the same problem suggests that it's infection rather than a handling problem.
I'd guess that you have a secondary yeast or bacterium in there, and you need to rigorously sterilise your kit!
Click to expand...

Ditto, especially on the sterilisation advice.

Brewing is a bit like riding a bike. If you ride a bike long enough you will eventually fall off and if you brew beer long enough you will one day get it wrong!

However ...
"Don't let this set-back put you off."​
 
I agree on the bottle front, but if air is being drawn into the keg as beer is poured, then it could also be part of the problem, especially as it initially tasted fine. Without knowing how the setup works it is difficult to say, but there could be more than one issue.
 
It's quite hard to diagnose and prevent infections, even us experienced brewers get them.

Next time you brew go over-the-top with cleanliness. I had a persistant infection recently that my normal procedures just didn't seem to be shifting, so I now have a 4-stage process: good clean with Oxy, sanitise with VWP, give everything a good rinse, then a final sanitise with boiled water from the kettle.
 
It's really disappointing to here that it might be sanitation because with this being my first brew I really made sure that I went overboard but I didn't use an auto syphon (didn't know about them at the time). Probably more stuff I didn't do that I'll come to learn about but will follow all your advice, btw this may seem stupid but where do you set your sanitised equipment literally before using them, I used paper towels, im guessing this is wrong too?
 
jasonlee471 said:
It's really disappointing to here that it might be sanitation because with this being my first brew I really made sure that I went overboard but I didn't use an auto syphon (didn't know about them at the time). Probably more stuff I didn't do that I'll come to learn about but will follow all your advice, btw this may seem stupid but where do you set your sanitised equipment literally before using them, I used paper towels, im guessing this is wrong too?
Click to expand...

Put simply (but hard to achieve) is that EVERYTHING that comes into contact with the wort once it has stopped boiling has to be sterilised.

I use a "no rinse" sterilising agent so after the required "soak" time I lay the items "face down" on kitchen paper that has been dampened with the sterilising solution to drain and then cover them with another layer of dampened paper until they are used.

I also use a nail-brush on my hands, give them a decent scrub (especially under the nails) and then sterilise them by handling the stuff that is being sterilised (e.g. the flip-tops and the bottle caps).

I don't use an auto syphon but I do have a tap at the end of the syphon tube so I use a small piece of tubing to suck the brew into the syphon tube and then take off the bit that's been in my mouth and replace it with a short length of sterilised tube.

All this AND I HAVE STILL BEEN CAUGHT OUT!! :doh::doh:

Just before the New Year I went on a tour of the Yorkshire Brewery at Cropton and the feature that hit me right between the eyes was the amount of sterilising solution that was scattered around the site in individual plastic cans or as full pallets of the stuff, and it brought home to me just how important sterilisation of equipment is.

One thing that I don't use but which has been recommended to me is to use a Spray Gun to send a fine spray of sterilising liquid into any "hard to reach" places. It is on my "Must get." list. :thumb:
 
I have a door tray from a fridge that I put star san in. Everything that needs to stay clean gets put in to it. It is a no-rinse sanitiser that many people swear by. Having the spray bottle full of the stuff almost encourages me to go doolally with sanitising - it gets sprayed liberally onto every possible item/surface that might come into contact with the finished product.
 
Or we can just recognise vinegar beers as a new style. More vinegar, more points. Extra points if you add rhubarb or made it turn black too .

😜
 
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Five_Star_Star_San_16oz_454g.html#.VsLV72YYbMI

Available from just about every homebrew shop, including the ones we get discount from. Seems expensive at first glance, but given it only takes 7.5ml for 5 litres of water, can be re-used and is no-rinse, this stuff is a winner for me. You have to be careful with which water you use, ordinary tap water is usually too high a ph value and will go cloudy when you pour the starsan in. Plenty of folk use cheap bottled water from the supermarket, or, like me, car battery top up water from places like Halfords. As I said earlier, get yourself a spray bottle and fill that with the mix. You can spray the lid of your fv and use it as a tray to put your equipment on.
 
Dutto said:
All this AND I HAVE STILL BEEN CAUGHT OUT!! :doh::doh:
Click to expand...

And that's the main problem: myself and many on here have had infections, yet none of us really know where they came from. So a lot of what you're reading about this technique vs that, and this sanitiser vs that sanitiser is all speculation - you can just do your best but even the experts get caught out.

Sounds like you were just unlucky: I think mine were due to brewing in a warm kitchen with lots of fruit around, but I can't prove it. All my infections occured in summer.

Make another one. Infections are a risk in this game and I think every brewer has one eventually - my first one was 4 years in.
 
Hmmmm it sounds like I need to get one of these no rinse ones then, it would mean less contact with stuff but I purposely went for a rinse one because i was sceptical that it didn't impact the flavour of the beer but you guys aren't the first I've heard say it really works so I'll get some next time
 

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