Sanitizing using Boiling Water/Steam

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MyQul

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If I want to sanitise mini kegs, small FV's etc, can I say 1/4-1/2 fill with boiling water cover and the steam from the boiling water will sanitse any of the surface area not covered by the water? I take it this will kill wild yeast too?
 
Seems this will work. I found this on the coopers forum

https://www.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/6407/ post 5

"I work in a lab doing molecular biology research in adelaide, and we work with bugs (bacteria and yeast) all the time so become familiar with what is “necessary” to kill off bacteria. So this is more on “Sanitising” than cleaning.



This method here is a good method, you need to have a consistant superheated temperature to kill bacteria - the temperature will literally make them explode. So remember that when you do it, to do it once, and then do a repeat boiling rinse afterward - to get rid of any excess microbial “goo”."
 
If you pour boiling water into a vessel you wont get any steam off it, you'll get water vapour which is a different thing (if you can see it, it isn't steam). To sanitise with steam you'd need some sort of hose with pressurised steam.
 
I am sure we had a baby bottle steraliser which worked like this you but water in the base and it heated it to the point it "steamed" up .. the bottles were too hot to touch for a few minutes after.

If its good enough for babies I would think its good enough for beer. I have done it aswell, and its also useful for cleaning.
 
If you pour boiling water into a vessel you wont get any steam off it, you'll get water vapour which is a different thing (if you can see it, it isn't steam). To sanitise with steam you'd need some sort of hose with pressurised steam.

I'm not wanting to sterilize but sanitize (in particular kill wild yeast, a I may have a WY infection but I'm not sure). So would the water vapour which I assume is pretty hot do this?
 
I repaired a steam cleaner that may work. Seems to remove stubborn stuff and leave the surface dry.

Traditionally, wooden barrels used for fermenting beer were 'scolded' then air dried in the wind. So boiling water worked in the past on absorbent wooden barrels, but this may be because the wood trapped more of the good yeast than wild yeasts so when started again (usually straight away) good yeast had the advantage. Not sure what happened when you started making infected beer though. Maybe put it over a fire - that would steam it for sure!

Doesn't work for modern plastics though :(

For mini kegs they should be ok in the oven without any plastic bits attached. Don't get too hot as there may be a lacquer on the metal.

You could boil them in a pan with a bit of hot water inside so it all gets up to steam temperature. I think the issue is keeping the heat for long enough. I sterilise my jam jars in a pan of boiling water and seems to work filled straight away with hot jam. Forms a vacuum seal when cold and has kept jam for 2 years+ like that.
 
I repaired a steam cleaner that may work. Seems to remove stubborn stuff and leave the surface dry.

Traditionally, wooden barrels used for fermenting beer were 'scolded' then air dried in the wind. So boiling water worked in the past on absorbent wooden barrels, but this may be because the wood trapped more of the good yeast than wild yeasts so when started again (usually straight away) good yeast had the advantage. Not sure what happened when you started making infected beer though. Maybe put it over a fire - that would steam it for sure!

Doesn't work for modern plastics though :(


For mini kegs they should be ok in the oven without any plastic bits attached. Don't get too hot as there may be a lacquer on the metal.

You could boil them in a pan with a bit of hot water inside so it all gets up to steam temperature. I think the issue is keeping the heat for long enough. I sterilise my jam jars in a pan of boiling water and seems to work filled straight away with hot jam. Forms a vacuum seal when cold and has kept jam for 2 years+ like that.

Easy kegs have a non removable plastic intergral tap that would melt if you put it in the oven. Easy kegs don't have this tap though
 
All I do with my 5 gallon FVs is - well I clean them straight after bottling, so when I want to use them again I just pour in 1 kettle of boiling water, put the lid on tightly, open the tap then lay the FV on it's side balanced on the edge of the sink & with the tap over the sink - then slowly rotate it a couple of times so that all internal surfaces get soaked in boiling water. Even the lid, I tip the FV onto its lid to sanitise that as well.
By the way , you have to have the tap open or expanding air will blow the lid off and spray you with boiling water!
 
I'm not wanting to sterilize but sanitize (in particular kill wild yeast, a I may have a WY infection but I'm not sure). So would the water vapour which I assume is pretty hot do this?

Water vapour is the same temperature as the air it's in. If there's a lot of air space it wouldn't be very hot at all, and if there isn't a lot of air space the hot water would be doing the job for you anyway.

Any reason not to use a no rinse sanitiser? I recently bought some cheapo thin bleach and vinegar and use 1 tablespoon of each to 5 gallons of water (mix the vinegar into the water first so that it dilutes and doesn't form toxic gas when you mix it with bleach).
 
If I was worried about potentially a WY infection I would do what Cwrw666 does and use boiling water on put it on all surfaces.. (I would also spray and shake up with star san.. leave nothing to chance.
 
The easy kegs have a plastic lining that could be softened by addition of boiling water making it much easier to damage. To kill with boiling water you would have to maintain the boil for a duration as we do with wort in the kettle.

In the past when I have used these I have cleaned after use, sterilised with solution of choice ( even weak domestos+rinse ) and place in a WARM oven at 60 - 65°C or so just to evaporate off the rinse water. Do not heat at too high a temp as the lining will be damaged.
 
The easy kegs have a plastic lining that could be softened by addition of boiling water making it much easier to damage. To kill with boiling water you would have to maintain the boil for a duration as we do with wort in the kettle.

In the past when I have used these I have cleaned after use, sterilised with solution of choice ( even weak domestos+rinse ) and place in a WARM oven at 60 - 65°C or so just to evaporate off the rinse water. Do not heat at too high a temp as the lining will be damaged.
Im sorry GeeTee, but you are absolutely wrong here. As someone who works in a hospital operating theatre I can assure you that sterile means every living organism....and in fact even then, even with irradiation you can't kill one in particular (mad cow).
You can't guarantee sterility unless certain tests are performed. Go to a hospital CSSD and see all the charts and tests they have to perform...its mind boggling.
There are 3 conditions we like..
1. Clean
2. Clinically Clean
3. Sterile
Huge difference, but only if your already sick and on deaths door.
In fact most old frail people die of simple infections only because they are iminuo suppressed
Clinically clean is good, because it kills all the common germs (the big common ones) that cause problems.
You have more germs up you're nose but you don't pour boiling water up there..and they won't cause a problem with you're beer.
The thing you don't want is WILD airborne yeasts in your beer and these can be destroyed at 80 degrees and simple chemicals ...THINK THRUSH...lady problem!!!
If you're still concerned,send all you stuff to Swindon for irradiation on a Cobalt 60 source.
Hot water and common sense prevails imo and I rest my point only cos people really don't know what they are taking about.
Not wanting to offend anyone here (sorry:() but this whole topic gets on my ****
 
Im sorry GeeTee, but you are absolutely wrong here. As someone who works in a hospital operating theatre I can assure you that sterile means every living organism....and in fact even then, even with irradiation you can't kill one in particular (mad cow).

Hot water and common sense prevails imo and I rest my point only cos people really don't know what they are taking about.
Not wanting to offend anyone here (sorry:() but this whole topic gets on my ****

Sorry for getting this wrong, should have been clearer, my use of the word "sterilise" was unforgivable ( honest). I do not think that as home brewers we can actual achieve sterile conditions at home and my point was not that my way was THE way to sterilise these kegs. All I said was that this is what I have done in the past to clean my kegs and had no problems so as far as I am concerned this works for me. I am not yet quite at deaths door and am willing to risk the odd manky beer ( none so far in ten years so something must be working OK even if I don't know why?)

As for the boiling water issue I still maintain that you may well kill organisms within the keg but because of the temperature of the water it may also damage the lining and shorten the lifetime.

Thanks for your comments I certainly do no want any lady problems in or any where near my beer.
 
Sorry for getting this wrong, should have been clearer, my use of the word "sterilise" was unforgivable ( honest). I do not think that as home brewers we can actual achieve sterile conditions at home and my point was not that my way was THE way to sterilise these kegs. All I said was that this is what I have done in the past to clean my kegs and had no problems so as far as I am concerned this works for me. I am not yet quite at deaths door and am willing to risk the odd manky beer ( none so far in ten years so something must be working OK even if I don't know why?)

As for the boiling water issue I still maintain that you may well kill organisms within the keg but because of the temperature of the water it may also damage the lining and shorten the lifetime.

Thanks for your comments I certainly do no want any lady problems in or any where near my beer.
No problem..Ive come to realise (in old age) do what you like if it works for YOU and you are happy with the results..Semantics is a problem tho:) Happy brewing!!
 
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Not wanting to offend anyone here (sorry:() but this whole topic gets on my ****

I think the problem is many HBers (unless your a HBer who also works in a clinical environment like you do) use the terms sanitise and sterilise interchangably not realising there's a huge difference between the two.
As a HBer you only need to sanitise unless you grow yeast on plates of agar (I'm sure there a name for this kind of thing) then you need to sterilise)
 
Water vapour is the same temperature as the air it's in. If there's a lot of air space it wouldn't be very hot at all, and if there isn't a lot of air space the hot water would be doing the job for you anyway.

Any reason not to use a no rinse sanitiser? I recently bought some cheapo thin bleach and vinegar and use 1 tablespoon of each to 5 gallons of water (mix the vinegar into the water first so that it dilutes and doesn't form toxic gas when you mix it with bleach).

I normally use star san but for a possible wild yeast infection I need a nuclear option. Normally I use a strong bleach solution but this can be a bit wasteful with water (filling a 27L FV full of water bar the 1.9L of bleach, then chucking it away), so I was wondering if there was an easier and less wasteful way
 
I think the problem is many HBers (unless your a HBer who also works in a clinical environment like you do) use the terms sanitise and sterilise interchangably not realising there's a huge difference between the two.
As a HBer you only need to sanitise unless you grow yeast on plates of agar (I'm sure there a name for this kind of thing) then you need to sterilise)

A measured and sensible post MQ. Use whatever works best for you, but, and its a big but, use common sense and not marketing hyperbole
 
I normally use star san but for a possible wild yeast infection I need a nuclear option. Normally I use a strong bleach solution but this can be a bit wasteful with water (filling a 27L FV full of water bar the 1.9L of bleach, then chucking it away), so I was wondering if there was an easier and less wasteful way

I never fill my FVs, I just roll it around the ground making sure every surface gets wet. Also I use one of those mist spray gun things which gets everywhere.

However I've never come across the term WY infection before. So does this mean that it's requires more effort than just preventing airborne yeasts getting a foothold? I used to use Sodium Metabisulphite in a solution to sanitise, which I'm pretty sure would clear your WY.
 
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