Lager �

Like it or not, most people still don’t seem to get it - Most people turn their nose up at the word ‘ale’ and when they think of beer they invariably think of lager.

I’d LOVE to brew a lager, but I just don’t know if it will ever be possible for me.

I’ve got a BIAB AG setup now, I went BIAB because of space limitations - And these space limitations are making lager look increasingly impossible.

I’m considering the new http://www.brewjacket.com/ because it’s small and could achieve the right fermenting temperature, but that’s only part of the equation.

After the fermentation is where I come unstuck - With an ale, I would ordinarily just prime and bottle then leave to condition for as long as possible.

Question:
Is it possible to Lager in the bottle? If I bottle the entire batch, left to carbonate for a few weeks and then cold stored it - Would that work? (not that I know where I would cold store it of course)

I’m also unfamiliar with what exactly transferring to secondary is, how and why people do it - And is this where people usually Laager their Lager ? (I suppose doing it this way, I could use the brewjacket to hold it at a very low temp)

And the actual laagering bit - We’re aiming for as low as possible without freezing, for an extended period of time? Months?

I guess what I’m really wondering is, even if I buy the brewjacket - Do I still also need a fridge to laager it (and can I do that in the bottle), or does anyone know of a creative method to get the same result.

Also interested to know how many people here bother with lagers and if it’s worth the hassle

Cheers

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Point taken, I'll edit them out :)

Looks interesting .. I admit I don't have much problem with stable ambient temps generally but having more control does interest me..a fridge or one of those brew bags looks interesting

This does look appealing!!

You could always do a pseudo lager, they often turn out pretty close to the "real" thing.

I plan on doing 2 (one using flaked maize as an adjunct, and one using flaked rice, both using MJ California Lager yeast, which is actually an ale yeast IIRC but is highly attenuating and has a crisp finish) this Autumn to stick in the shed over the winter, primarily with my brother in law's stag do next spring in mind.

MickDundee said:

You could always do a pseudo lager, they often turn out pretty close to the "real" thing.

I plan on doing 2 (one using flaked maize as an adjunct, and one using flaked rice, both using MJ California Lager yeast, which is actually an ale yeast IIRC but is highly attenuating and has a crisp finish) this Autumn to stick in the shed over the winter, primarily with my brother in law's stag do next spring in mind.

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Yup that is true, I did one and it was really good, with MYQs advise to lager them in the fridge for 3-4 weeks, makes a huge difference as it gives them the crisp

chuff76 said:

I’d LOVE to brew a lager, but I just don’t know if it will ever be possible for me.

I’ve got a BIAB AG setup now, I went BIAB because of space limitations - And these space limitations are making lager look increasingly impossible.

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Au contraire, mon ami.

Step into the Peckham Brewery. My equally space restricted ale AND lager brewery (it also doubles as MyQul's Emporium of Shiny but that's another story )

What you want to be looking at is 'pseudo lagering.'

The first part of making a lager is the cold fermentation of course. What this does is give you the clean taste of a lager. But you can mimic this with a clean ale yeast. I have a pseudo vienna lager in the FV at the moment. It's free fermenting using WLP001 which is famous for giving very clean flavours even at it's top end of its temp range.
You could also actually use a lager yeast. What is generally not know is that you can ferment a lager yeast at ale temps. From what I've read it just gives a 'dirty' lager. I haven't tried it yet but it's on my list of things to do. However I recently read a Brulosophy Beer experiment where he fermented two exact same lagers using the same lager yeast one at lager temps and one a ale temps and noone couldreally tell the difference http://brulosophy.com/2015/06/22/fermentation-temperature-pt-3-lager-yeast-exbeeriment-results/
If you really want to ferment at lager temps thogh, I can't see a price on the bit of kit you linked but I have a cool brewing brew bag http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58966 these cost about �£50 from geterbrewed. I've pseudo lagered in it down to 15C but I'm almost positive you could get down to 12C, the temp where people lager at.You just need lots of space in your freezer for ice bottles at those temps. There great if your space restricted as they're easily portable and can be squuashed down to store away.

The second part of making a lager it the cold conditioning/lagering part. This gives the crispness to a lager. It also does other things like precipitate solids like yeast and tannins out of your beer. This bit is the hardest for the HB without a dedicated lagering fridge as there's no way to get around this. If you want a lager you HAVE to condition at about 3C.
As to your question about lagering in the bottle, yes you can do it . You just have to be careful when pouring to not disturb the sediment as it undoes the job of lagering. Also make sure you don't lager in the fridge door if you bottle lager in your domestic fridge as the constant opening and closing will disturb the sediment too.
What I do for the cold conditioning part is to use mini kegs in my domestic fridge. MrsMQ doesn't mind one mini keg in the fridge. So I normally drink most of the batch of pseudo lager as a clean ale and lager 5L to turn it into a proper lager. What I could do is lager 5L drink it then put another mini keg in the fridge till all four MK's of a batch have been lagered and drunk but this would take a total of about 5 months and I'm not that patient

As for how long to lager, about 4-6 weeks. I just do it for 4 weeks before I tuck in. A good rule of thumb I've read is to lager for one day for ever OG point

This is a good read about making lager, what the cold conditioning actually does, how to bulk or bottle lager etc,

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers

You could try something like kolsch which is pretty close to a lager. There are a few liquid strains for that or Wlp011 European ale is very clean but works at ale temps.

serum said:

You could try something like kolsch which is pretty close to a lager. There are a few liquid strains for that or Wlp011 European ale is very clean but works at ale temps.

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WLP011 has only got a medium attenuation though (I was looking at it for milds) so I don't think it would be dry enough for a lager

You'd be surprised. If you mash low it'll go to 1010 or sometimes lower even though the figures suggest otherwise.

Some great info there guys, thanks :thumb:

MyQul - Great writeup, I've just read the entire Braukaiser article which is excellent but the more I read about this the more it puts me off. Maybe I need to concentrate on my IPA's for the time being.

Pseudo Lager sounds interesting though!! I'm going to look it up and see if it's got legs.

That brewjacket looks cool(no pun), I guess you could DIY it a lot cheaper but I may well get it anyway(regardless of if I try a lager quite yet or not) just to stop the temperature fluctuations in the FV - I've just had my first ever failed ferment, and I suspect it could be down to temperature swing. I think they are releasing a new version this year that not only cools, but also heats your wort.